As far as I know, a *gas* limit is set by all agencies. I think there should *also* be a time limit. In some cases, it may be better to go out, and get more gas, and/or help to search.
Mostly, it gives buddies a chance to find each other without risking one running out of gas, looking for someone that is already out of the cave.
FWIW, they should both leave evidence that they have left (notes, cookies, etc.)
Well, let's do the math. Let's say the person has a horrible SAC of 1, and swims slowly at 30 ft/min. At that rate, and at 18 ft depth, they need 1.6 * 400/30 or about 20 cu ft of gas. In double HP 100's, that's 350 PSI. Add a bit on, you could safely hang around until your tanks were down to about 800 PSI before exiting.
I know that no one is going to do that math underwater. But it's interesting to compare this to Challenge 3. In this Challenge (shallow, near the entrance), I'd search for a long, long time. In Challenge 3 (deep, WAY too far back) I'd get the hell out if I couldn't see the buddy almost immediately, possibly leaving a line marker every few hundred feet to show the other guy I was on my way out.
Andrew Ainslie
Almost extinct cave diver
time for new line arrows?
maybe it's time for two new line arrow types? 1. Gone Looking for you in this direction, 2. Gave up looking for you and left going this direction which I think is the way out. Identifiable in zero viz?Originally Posted by FW
-skip
"Learning the techniques of others does not interfere with the discovery of techniques of one's own." B.F. Skinner, 1970.
I don't know about the arrows but I know if I am going into good vis in a cave like that I AM GOING THE WRONG WAY! Clear water is always a bad sign. Going back into the #### once on the line is the way out, in or out of flow. Cindy
"Philosophy is a purely personal matter. A genuine philosopher's credo is the outcome of a single complex personality; it cannot be transferred. No two persons, if sincere, can have the same philosophy."
--Havelock Ellis
I agree.
I am surprised the original training director didn't think of that.
Now how do we get training standards changed??
"Is this thing on?"
I agree.
I am surprised the original training director didn't think of that.
Now how do we get training standards changed??
"Self Rescue"-! Ditto-!
Well, between 4' & 18' with a set of LP 104's on your back, pumped close to their maximum pressures, one would have a lot of time to think about things, considering that he has not panicked yet, & his ACR is still relatively low, or normal. I recall one similar incident towards the back of Bonnet, on a solo dive, where there was no one else anywhere within two miles to guide me out of a silted, clay passage, where I had become stuck, my regulators stuffed with clay, & only my thoughts to work things out. So, I proceeded to dig the clay out of my 2nd stages, while my breathing rate settled down, & the silt also began clearing. { you have some flow at times in Bonnet} After all, even at 25', I had several hours to work things out, with my lowered breathing rate. I was indeed laughing at my self...'stuck in a silted out tunnel, with clogged regulators'-! What else could happen-? Naaaawwwww.....this was fun, huh- :P It didn't take long, maybe twenty minutes or so, my regs, were cleaned, I backed out of where I was, found the line, & finished the dive. No big deal.I have actually faced this problem three times myself. Twice with buddies that went past me and actually made it out before I did and once I made it out before my buddy did. It's a tough decision to make. So much can happen in a cave that I doubt any instructor can cover every problem. The thing they need to do is train a diver to be able to do self rescue and be a thinking well trained dive buddy. Cindy
Then there was the one inside Luraville 1, before Cathy owned it.....That was fun too-!
8)
Jack
here's how it came out
The scenario is true. I was the leader and got wrapped and twanged off into the unknown.
Right or wrong here's how it resolved: First thing I did was stop moving and pressed the fin against the cave wall to get a bit of relief from the cramp (since I couldn't reach down and grab the fin). Then relaxed and assessed, plenty of gas, yep stuck tight. Exhaling helped a bit and I got one arm up to inflator and was then able to deflate BC, which gave me wiggle room to "scootch" down fin-first. and I checked the depth. the crack widened as I scootched down and then I dropped to the floor, tied off a safety reel and began the lost line search.
I figured the darkest area, most silty was where I'd come from, so headed back into it and be darned if I didn't come out of cloud just in time to see buddy with his light slowly moving back and forth. He was near the mainline.
Buddy had been waiting, figuring how much time and air to use in a search, and knowing that we were on a large flat bedding plain figured I might have shot off and around coming back on the mainline up ahead aways. That's where he went to look and not finding me in a reasonable time, returned to the silt-out area, and began tying off a safety reel to come in the cloud to find me. He didn't get far when I emerged from the cloud.
Never so glad to see him in all my life! I could see the relief in his eyes too. Although we were only 15 or 20 minutes into the dive, we exited, leaving my line tied to the mainline as a T (to return and go that way cause there seemed to be a lot more cave over there to check out later).
I emailed my instructor and thanked him for the training. Lost line drills work.
-skip
"Learning the techniques of others does not interfere with the discovery of techniques of one's own." B.F. Skinner, 1970.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks