cave training in caves

[ltb7733]

i took my friend into orange and peacock this weekend, he just finished intro. After our dives he said he couldnt believe all the marks in the bottom and damage to the walls/ceiling. this was his first time in these places. it occured to me that we all train in caves and as newbies we ARE going to leave marks. which brings me to the point of this post: how do we train for cave diving and not leave marks in caves? ( all of you who were born perfect cave divers from the get go need not reply)

Well, what you do is ... oh yeah, you didn't want to hear from us.


My advice is dive in doubles in open water until it's second-nature. The biggest problem I see is divers in doubles that aren't comfortable yet.

[ltb7733]

to be more specific, imeant during cave training classes ,there are going to be ,and continue to be marks left during training excersises. this is not going to be avoided. however: there is a tremendous consensus for cave preservation. i agree totally. but it seems cave training in caves causes a fair amount, if not most marks in the bottom. seem antithetical to the cause of cave conservation. i dont know if there is an equitable solution.

[aw]

I suggest putting everyone in doubles, 2 stages, and a scooter. This way you'll be geared up for distance. By ensuring that the dive plan is continuous motion, it will be less likely that any diver will be stopped in one place for very long, thereby reducing the chance of silting, getting off balance, and marking up the cave.

[akcaver]

In my experience it seems to be that most of the cave training is in the heavily used, not so silty caves that seem to be less prone to damage. Granted, anybody can damage any cave, but it seems most training is in the hardier caves such as peacock, ginnie, and jackson. These caves have been banged up for a long time, so I think the main problem is conserving systems that are more fragile and thus more prone to damage. I think the biggest problem with cave training is not being used to the gear and having your buoyancy imperfect. I personally had decent experience using doubles before training, and then during my class we spent at least 6 hours in the pool getting used to our gear config and perfecting buoyancy. I believe this helps tremendously before getting into a cave. But then again, during training you are required to turn out the lights and find the line and exit the cave, its expected youre going to run into things and damage the cave a little. Thats why most of that is done in the Peanut tunnel at peacock. A small hardy passage that can take alot of damage. Kinda reminds me of a dwarf.

it seems cave training in caves causes a fair amount, if not most marks in the bottom

... because people are diving in doubles that aren't comfortable in doubles.

[Mike]

I was under the impression that instructors did not use OG for intro training.
We were in there last week & I see what you mean but, it looks like scooter tracks to me.

[CaptainSpeleo]

The last I heard, scooters weren't allowed in the Peacock system. They're more likely drag marks from stage bottles.

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One of my family members was allowed to wear his double 108's in Peacock I to take the Cavern course because he had expressed a desire to his instructor to continue on to Full Cave(which he never did). He wasn't used to all the extra weight and negative bouyancy and kept crashing to the floor of the cavern. He got so stressed out that he aborted the training dive. He completed the course a few weeks later with another instructor and wearing a single 108.

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[Kevin Gonzalez]

A couple of points if I may. Mr Slugde is for the most part right. However, a more comprehensive statement would be, individuals lacking proper bouyancy skills for whatever configuration they are diving would be more appropriate. This could be singles or doubles, and don't forget all those people diving sidemount (because it looks cool or is convenient, not for what sidemounting was originally intended for) as well.

There is no replacement for for skill. Too many divers are going well beyond their capabilities and skill level. Not to mention certification level. lack of mentoring, not enough previous diving experience and other reasons. Intro to cave is actually far too little to turn someone loose with in most cases and worse if they lack overall experience. The "technology" available today is also why you see more and more damge further into systems, because people are taking "doubles, two stages, and scooters...." into caves with insufficient experience.

You are diving in an environment that from silt banks to the cave itself, has taken hundreds of years to millions of years to form and can be wiped out in an instant. Most marks of even inconsequential proportion will be there for many years.

Another point is, that there could be scooter marks as they are now banned, not that they were never allowed in the Peacock system.

As an aside, I did look at a link from this thread. I find it very disturbimg and alarming that anyone would ever state they are promoting cavern and cave diving to the general public. That is extremely contrary to the major cave training agencies philosophies.

[allen]

Many divers would be willing to practice a bit more at the Intro level if there wern't so much pressure to get Full Cave certification as quickly as possible. Gilchrist County bans all but Full Cave divers from Hart Springs - even with a Hart Springs certified guide. NSS-CDS chooses Hart Springs for its annual outing, effectively excluding Intro and even Apprentice cave divers. Ginnie Springs charges Intro level cave divers half again as much as Full Cave Divers. Only members who are Full Cave certified have a vote in NACD. And most Full Cave Divers don't want to dive with Intro cave divers. The message is overwhelmingly: get Full Cave certification at once or quit!