Speleothem question... (whats that?)

[akcaver]

Hey all,
I am wondering if anyone has ever seen dripstone formations (stalagmites, stalagtites, flowstone, etc.) in any of the submerged caves in Florida or Georgia? I only know of a few caves in Florida that are dry and have these formations, but Ive never heard of any formations in a submerged cave here like there is in Mexico or Ohio(yea, really!).
Cheers,
Andrew

[Walter Pickel]

There are some small dry formations in Little Salt Springs and Twin Dees that I know of. The back of the Super Room at the Nest is littered with dry formation that have fallen.

Eagle's Nest
Twin Dees
Little Salt Spring

[Craig G.]

To have formations you must have dry caves. Formations are a product of minerals mainly calcium carbonate contained in ground water which drain through porous sediment and ultimately drip into an underground void "aka cave if there is an opening" producing stalagmites and dripping off them to make stalactites. The problem with Florida is that it has been underwater since the beginning of the formations of caves in Florida for the most part. Currently we are coming out of the Pleistocene ice age and as a result water levels are intermediately high with water still captured in glacial ice. Thousands of years from now all of the ice may melt and rise sea levels 100' or more shrinking exposed continental crust. In turn Ice ages are very cyclical and will ultimately reoccur, possibly in the next 10 million years during the next glacial maximum Florida caves may dry up and have a chance to form formations. After they are dry we'll want them to flood again so we can dive them that'll be another 5 million years away. So if you can wait 15 million years Ginnie might have formations.

[Walter Pickel]

The problem with Florida is that it has been underwater since the beginning of the formations of caves in Florida for the most part.

I am not a geologist so what I am stating here is my interpretations of what I have read and heard.

Your point is very valid for "recent" caves. But not more "ancient caves" in deeper formations (west central Florida - Eocene and Oligocene formations).

During the last ice age, places like Eagle's Nest, Twin Dees, etc. were dry as the sea level was ~300' more shallow than it is today. The formations in Eagle's Nest and Twin Dee's are both around 260'.

[nic160]

Doesn't Warm Mineral Spring have formations ?

[akcaver]

The explanation CaverCraig gave is the one I have been thinking of, seeing as how there is no evidence of dripstone formations (requiring dry caves) in any of the springs around here, but there is evidence in some of the caves that they were partially dry during formation, seen in some caves as a channel on the floor (noticable at Ginnie in quite a few places) indicating a running stream in a dry cave. My personal thinking is that the water table has never been low enough for an extended period of time to allow dripstone formations. Im actually trying to figure this out because im working on a masters thesis on this subject at FSU, so any help would be awesome.
Cheers

[Walter Pickel]

The explanation CaverCraig gave is the one I have been thinking of, seeing as how there is no evidence of dripstone formations (requiring dry caves) in any of the springs around here, but there is evidence in some of the caves that they were partially dry during formation, seen in some caves as a channel on the floor (noticable at Ginnie in quite a few places) indicating a running stream in a dry cave. My personal thinking is that the water table has never been low enough for an extended period of time to allow dripstone formations. Im actually trying to figure this out because im working on a masters thesis on this subject at FSU, so any help would be awesome.
Cheers

Get ahold of Brett Hemphill...He can tell you where they are.

[bmwcaves]

There's formations in several Florida caves that are currently underwater. Paradise Springs, Warm Mineral Springs, Salt Springs as well as others down near the Hernando County area.
Many "dry" caves in Florida are partialy filled with water and will have formations underwater depending on the aquifer levels. There are also active formations such as calcite rafts floating in many caves throughout the state. Although these are not "dripstone" type foramtions, they still form through mineral deposition.

Cetainly formations in Florida caves are not as prevelant as the Yucatan...but they are there

Brian

[OutlawCaver]

There is a underground tour of the Lincoln Memorial that you can request. There are speleothems forming in the near cave like conditions in the basement of the monument. There is a glass window where you can peer into the basement from the main floor. The entire Tidal Basin area around the monuments was once a marsh that was filled in.

[Webmaster]

To have the various dripstone formations occur, you have to have water migrating into the cave. Those types of areas often tend to be unstable for that very reason. I would suspect that the limestone is soft enough that there are many places in UW caves in FL that had formations which have since been destroyed by breakdown modification or increased weathering.

I think my favorite formations are the draperies and other dripstone that manages to form in active stream caves that gets periodically inundated. When flooded the water removes material rather than depositing it and you can get these beautiful, delicate, lacy formations.