Want rapid accident analysis and want the IUCRR to determine a mechanism

[Diverlee]

I like this report. Even if only the first part with no analysis.
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[EBRAUN]

When I posted the info from the recovery before this one at ginnie I received a rude email from Beth of ginnie and iucrr fame threatening legal action if I didnt stop posting and didnt take it down. I ignored it because there is nothing illegal about my posts. It was grandstanding to try and scare me. Very pathetic.


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Please tell what part was threatening and grandstanding?

[JohnAd]

The NSS publishes a report called American Caving Accidents. It included descriptions of accidents involving caving, and that included cave diving. The former editor of it was not a cave diver, so she usually had someone in the cave diving community write those reports. Forrest wrote some of them. I wrote some of them. (Ironically, even though I wrote quite a few reports, for some reason I never had copies sent to me, so I never saw the final product.) I sent in detailed reports of some of the more well known incidents, and I assume they were published there.

That even includes an IUCRR report. When a diver died in Manatee Springs a couple years ago, I was asked to investigate the case and write a report. It was a remarkably easy investigation because the lead diver wrote a detailed description that was shockingly honest (he accepted blame), and it was published. I wrote a report and somehow egot contact information for a IUCRR member who was part of the recovery. I asked him to fact check it. He not only said it was accurate, he asked if he could submit what I had written as the IUCRR report. I agreed. So that report went two places--the police and the NSS.

I usually worked by interviewing key people and getting their take on things. For the recent Dominican Republic double fatality, I interviewed Edd Sorenson, Mike Young, and Phillip. I have interviewed Edd Sorenson about several fatalities, and he has always been very forthcoming. (He is a member of the IUCRR.) For the recent double fatality in Gran Cenote in Mexico, I talked with the people who did the recovery and analyzed the video. Again, they were very helpful and free with the information.

Well, the editor of the NSS publication with whom I worked is not longer in that position, and I have not been contacted by whoever took her place in a while, so I don't know what the future is for that.

My purpose is to point out that it would not be hard at all for a credible organization (like CDS) to take over this process and have a team of writers who would do as I did. Handled properly, it could even work cooperatively with the IUCRR so that the IUCRR would not be publishing (since they obviously do not want to publish), but would be able to provide information and validation as needed for someone else to publish (as happened with the manatee Springs fatality). I have the drafts I wrote for the reports I sent in, and I would have no problem if someone wanted to publish those.

My one concern for the CDS is that a few years ago I gave up trying to be a member when nothing I did seemed to bring membership.

[PfcAJ]

The NSS publishes a report called American Caving Accidents. It included descriptions of accidents involving caving, and that included cave diving. The former editor of it was not a cave diver, so she usually had someone in the cave diving community write those reports. Forrest wrote some of them. I wrote some of them. (Ironically, even though I wrote quite a few reports, for some reason I never had copies sent to me, so I never saw the final product.) I sent in detailed reports of some of the more well known incidents, and I assume they were published there.

That even includes an IUCRR report. When a diver died in Manatee Springs a couple years ago, I was asked to investigate the case and write a report. It was a remarkably easy investigation because the lead diver wrote a detailed description that was shockingly honest (he accepted blame), and it was published. I wrote a report and somehow egot contact information for a IUCRR member who was part of the recovery. I asked him to fact check it. He not only said it was accurate, he asked if he could submit what I had written as the IUCRR report. I agreed. So that report went two places--the police and the NSS.

I usually worked by interviewing key people and getting their take on things. For the recent Dominican Republic double fatality, I interviewed Edd Sorenson, Mike Young, and Phillip. I have interviewed Edd Sorenson about several fatalities, and he has always been very forthcoming. (He is a member of the IUCRR.) For the recent double fatality in Gran Cenote in Mexico, I talked with the people who did the recovery and analyzed the video. Again, they were very helpful and free with the information.

Well, the editor of the NSS publication with whom I worked is not longer in that position, and I have not been contacted by whoever took her place in a while, so I don't know what the future is for that.

My purpose is to point out that it would not be hard at all for a credible organization (like CDS) to take over this process and have a team of writers who would do as I did. Handled properly, it could even work cooperatively with the IUCRR so that the IUCRR would not be publishing (since they obviously do not want to publish), but would be able to provide information and validation as needed for someone else to publish (as happened with the manatee Springs fatality). I have the drafts I wrote for the reports I sent in, and I would have no problem if someone wanted to publish those.

My one concern for the CDS is that a few years ago I gave up trying to be a member when nothing I did seemed to bring membership.

You’re still relying on the IUCRR to give up the info.

Cut them out completely. Let the CDS do the recovery and analysis. There’s no need for the IUCRR to even be a factor.

[JohnAd]

You’re still relying on the IUCRR to give up the info.

Cut them out completely. Let the CDS do the recovery and analysis. There’s no need for the IUCRR to even be a factor.

Fine, but how do you do that? If the police are blessing IUCRR for these recoveries, how does anyone else step in? Back in the 1800's, in some cities there were different competing fire departments that would race to a fire, with the one arriving first getting to put it out and getting paid for it. We certainly can't have anything like this.

[PfcAJ]

I don’t think the police are blessing anyone. It IS who gets there first.

It just so happens that the IUCRR is the only org that does this. It doesn’t have to be the only one.

[tbone1004]

Fine, but how do you do that? If the police are blessing IUCRR for these recoveries, how does anyone else step in? Back in the 1800's, in some cities there were different competing fire departments that would race to a fire, with the one arriving first getting to put it out and getting paid for it. We certainly can't have anything like this.

What AJ said, in most of these I doubt it is the police that are mobilizing the divers, they're the ones mobilizing the police. That has been my experience at least.

[bamafan]

There was a fatality in Mexico on Saturday and already there is a fairly thorough report issued.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/cave...9931158470818/

[PfcAJ]

There was a fatality in Mexico on Saturday and already there is a fairly thorough report issued.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/cave...9931158470818/

That link goes to a private FB group. Can you copy/paste the report perhaps in another thread?

Edit: Nm looks like its already been posted. Thx.

[lord1234]

That link goes to a private FB group. Can you copy/paste the report perhaps in another thread?

Edit: Nm looks like its already been posted. Thx.

They posted it within 48 hours of the fatality. Sure there is some info missing/unknown but thats better then conjecture/guessing.