Hog loop on a CCR

[lord1234]

This feels a bit like a challenge. Might be just the motivation I need.


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Existing cave instructors and CCR divers excluded LOL.

[bent]

Existing cave instructors and CCR divers excluded LOL.

Good. I dont have Fundies, I'm not a cave instructor and not a CCR diver either but do have a GUE-JJ now. What do you wanna bet other than eating your hat?

[lord1234]

Good. I dont have Fundies, I'm not a cave instructor and not a CCR diver either but do have a GUE-JJ now. What do you wanna bet other than eating your hat?

you gotta run through fundies, tech1 and GUE CCR1. See you in at least 75 dives? How about a nice bottle of bourbon? You pay shipping tho

[bent]

you gotta run through fundies, tech1 and GUE CCR1. See you in at least 75 dives? How about a nice bottle of bourbon? You pay shipping tho

That's a 8 grand bottle of bourbon I assume.

Why 75 dives? I thought it's just 25 dives after Tec 1. You should be able to do Fundi and Tec 1 back to back. Prereq for Tec 1 is only 100 dives.

You could do Fundies and Tec 1 in 2 weeks and crank out 25 dive in a 2 week trip easy. That'd be from Fundies to CCR1 in 5 weeks. You just need money and time and be a somewhat competent diver it seems.
I have never looked into this before, but GUE standards doesn't seem that high after all. Sounds pretty average compared to the other agencies. Just triple the price or so. Jeez, eff me gentle 2.5 grand for Tec1 plus expenses. I didn't see any prices for CCR1 but it's probably north of 3 grand I reckon.

Looks like a busy GUE instructor can turn over 20 grand plus a month... maybe I should look into becomming a GUE instructor... mmmh. Germans love to wear matching t-shirts a standardised rules. Should be a good market over here.

[rddvet]

You also dont need to be gue trained to dive a jj with 50s on it. While I am happy to have taken fundies after years of cave diving and tech diving, I wouldnt go the gue route just to dive a jj with 50s. Though I do plan on taking tech one within the year. If tech 1 is something you wanted to do, then it makes sense. If you dont care, find an instructor who dives it with 50s. I know Jon Bernot dives his with 50s pretty exclusively

Edit: ps your comments that gue standards arent significanly higher than other agencies is inaccurate.

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[bent]

You also dont need to be gue trained to dive a jj with 50s on it. While I am happy to have taken fundies after years of cave diving and tech diving, I wouldnt go the gue route just to dive a jj with 50s. Though I do plan on taking tech one within the year. If tech 1 is something you wanted to do, then it makes sense. If you dont care, find an instructor who dives it with 50s.

The JJ I got also came with the stock wing and tanks etc. but there were AL40s on it an no BOV. I think the standard in Europe is 7 liter steel tanks and a BOV but I think the BOV is optional.
I'm not taking any GUE classes. I thought about taking Fundies just to see why people like it so much but I don't have any expectation that it' close to being worth the money or time. After 25 years of diving... what am I gonna learn in fin kicking class? I read through what's taught in Fundies... it's super basic and seems very much aimed at beginners.
I think it be also unfair to the instructor when you take a class that you think wont be good ... I wouldn't want a student like that either.
I don't think I can find a instructor that dives BM BO. I'm having a hard time finding an instructor in the first place. Even though I live 3 hours from the JJ factory. At this point I'll take a class with any instructor so I can use the thing. Ironically I bought the JJ because I thought getting a fathom would have been too much of a PITA to get training and the unit itself as long as the US borders are closed.

Edit: ps your comments that gue standards arent significanly higher than other agencies is inaccurate.

I meant the prerequisites for the classes. 100 dives for trimix is not a lot and than just 25 dives for CCR classe that also includes trimix is really not a lot. Looks like I could go from Fundies to ccr trimix in 25 non-training dives. I'm not sure you could do it any faster with any other agency.

[kieren]

I meant the prerequisites for the classes. 100 dives for trimix is not a lot and than just 25 dives for CCR classe that also includes trimix is really not a lot. Looks like I could go from Fundies to ccr trimix in 25 non-training dives. I'm not sure you could do it any faster with any other agency.

Actually, just about any other agency would allow you to go from open water diver with 50 dives total into a Trimix course (IANTD Advanced Rec Trimix or TDI Helitrox) with no intro to tech or such prep course required. Someone’s first time in doubles could be in a trimix course (and that is generally how it is normally approached). Then straight into a CCR Trimix course as the Mod 1 with zero experience dives inbetween. IANTD wouldn’t even require you to have any OC tech training, any diver with 50 total dives could go straight into CCR adv. Rec trimix.

Also, I think the big component you are missing is the level of skill someone who’s passed Tech 1 would have vs just about any other “streamlined” path (someone who only meets the min standards). Fundies tech pass is not easy. Tech 1 is very challenging. 25 Tech 1 dives after that is a fair bit of experience, certainly leaps and bounds over what any other agency’s minimum is.

[bent]

Fundies tech pass is not easy. Tech 1 is very challenging.

Can you point out what's challenging about it? I mean to someone who's been diving for a while. I get that it can be challenging to a beginner to deploy a spare mask without smashing into the bottom but to any somewhat competent diver this should really be no problem whatsoever.
Below I pasted what you are required to show in tec1 according to GUE. What part of this is supposed to be challenging? Can you point something out that people are having difficulties with?
I'm not being facetious, I realy dont get it.
I might read in in between the lines but it sound to me like old school GUE bravado as in 'were better than you'.
At least George back in the day would be very specific... x and y sucks because this and that. That, I get. You can either agree or not with the reasoning given.

I would love to some day have a GUE instructor show me what I suck at and how it's done better. I'd be happy to pay for a day and gladly do a full fundi class and tec1 if there is actually something of subtance to learn. But I not paying a grand and spend 4 days bored in fin kick class listeing to someone telling me why being in trim and situational awareness makes sense.
Germany is full of GUE divers, I see them all the time. I don't see what special other than the attitude and being douchy to people with split fins or neopren drysuits.

Required Dive Skills and Drills
Demonstrate proficiency in safe diving techniques, including pre-dive preparation, inwater activity, and post-dive assessment.
b. Demonstrate awareness of team member location and a concern for safety, responding
quickly to visual indications and dive partner needs.
c. Demonstrate a safe and responsible demeanor throughout all training.
d. Demonstrate proficiency in underwater communication.
e. Demonstrate basic proficiency in managing the GUE equipment configuration.
f. Demonstrate proficiency with proper ascents and descents, utilizing variable ascent
rates and safe gas switching procedures.
g. Must be able to swim at least 400 yds/375 m in less than 14 minutes without stopping.
This test should be conducted in a swimsuit and, where necessary, appropriate thermal
protection.
h. Must be able to swim a distance of at least 60 ft/18 m on a breath hold while submerged.
i. Demonstrate proficiency in gas failure procedures, including valve manipulation
(fixable, non-fixable, and erroneous failures), gas sharing, and regulator switching as
appropriate.
GUE General Training Standards, Policies, and Procedures
Excerpt from Version 9.2 view the full document at www.gue.com/standards
3
j. Demonstrate proficiency in surface marker buoy deployment (except if Tech 1 training
is conducted in a cave environment).
k. Demonstrate proficiency in switching to a backup mask.
l. Demonstrate proficiency in switching to a backup light.
m. Demonstrate familiarity with required course equipment.
n. Demonstrate proficiency in managing gas-sharing scenarios, including gas sharing on
the bottom, gas sharing during ascent, and sharing decompression gas.
o. Comfortably demonstrate at least three propulsion techniques that would be
appropriate in delicate and/or silty environments; one of these kicks must be the
backward kick.
p. Demonstrate reasonable proficiency with a single decompression cylinder.
q. Demonstrate proficiency with effective decompression techniques, including depth and
time management.
r. Demonstrate dive rescue techniques, including effective underwater management of an
unconscious diver.
s. Demonstrate good buoyancy and trim, i.e., approximate reference is a maximum of 20
degrees off horizontal while remaining within 3 ft/1 m of a target depth.
t. Demonstrate the ability to manage a failed decompression cylinder using available team
resources.

[rddvet]

I?ve been diving over 25 years and tech diving about 12. I still got things from fundies. It?s just like changing up instructors for different classes. Each instructor has little nuances another instructor may have missed. With gue, those little nuances are taught by all of the instructors since it?s standardized. A couple of weeks before fundies I wondered if I was wasting time and money, but I?m glad I took it. There are instructors who have way more dives than you and I combined that took fundies and learned something.
It?s one of those you don?t know until you try it kind of things. But I am also a person who goes into every class hoping to learn something I?ve never learned before. Even with the worst instructors I can come away with something

[Whitrzac]

Actually, just about any other agency would allow you to go from open water diver with 50 dives total into a Trimix course (IANTD Advanced Rec Trimix or TDI Helitrox) with no intro to tech or such prep course required. Someone’s first time in doubles could be in a trimix course (and that is generally how it is normally approached). Then straight into a CCR Trimix course as the Mod 1 with zero experience dives inbetween. IANTD wouldn’t even require you to have any OC tech training, any diver with 50 total dives could go straight into CCR adv. Rec trimix.

Also, I think the big component you are missing is the level of skill someone who’s passed Tech 1 would have vs just about any other “streamlined” path (someone who only meets the min standards). Fundies tech pass is not easy. Tech 1 is very challenging. 25 Tech 1 dives after that is a fair bit of experience, certainly leaps and bounds over what any other agency’s minimum is.

Helitrox is 150ft max. 21% min o2. Technically trimix, but same level as an OC an/dp course.



TDI CCR path is:
20 OW level dives to start

Course: Air diluiant, no deco, 100ft max


Then
Course: Air deco/helitrox. 150ft max depth
Min 6 months, 30hours of experiance

Then
Mixed gas CCR: 200ft max, 18% o2 min. AKA normax trimix

Min 50hrs of experience


Then
Adv mixed gas ccr AKA hypoxic trimix
min 100hrs of experience


So TDI's standards are higher than GUE? lol