What’s the process for getting certified to do visuals?
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What’s the process for getting certified to do visuals?
Sdi/tdi has a course. Find a local instructor. I used dayo scuba years ago. The course teaches alot about inspection but most of the info anout oxygen cleaning I learned after the course.Originally Posted by Jaaron
PSI also has a very good course (better than sdi?s) but its pricier and can be hard to find a class. I think hydro dave teaches it if you get a few people together
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Bad fills. No not in cave country. Tell that to the two divers that ended up in an ICU and myself that damn near died from bad fills from Cave East a few years ago.
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my recommendation... NEVER!
just kidding... i just let them do it at Hydro. every year is a dive industry self created standard that is overkill and a way for shops to make extra revenue. The DOT hydrostatic testing process requires a VIP BEFORE the tank can by hydro'd and is actually a part of the hydro testing/recertification process. Of course if your LDS wants a fancy sticker on the tank for every fill, then you're stuck.
This is delicate territory and I do not have the specific documents in front of me to give you the exact language so bare with me a little. Title 49 Code of Federal Regulations is where we get guidance on cylinder use, testing, & inspection. That document, a several hundred page book, is published free online. It incorporates by reference documents from the Compressed Gas Association. If a document is incorporated then it's contents have the rule of law behind them. The wordings can be very specific and also somewhat vague. In the case of vague language some folks have written for letters of interpretation to get a more specific explanation of something.
The document CGA C6, C6.1, C6.2 are all incorporated by reference and pertain to cylinder inspection, steel, aluminum, and composite respectively. These are unfortunately all not available for free online unless you find an out of date copy.
Hydrostatic requalification requires inspection per 49CFR so your hydro tester has no choice but to do this. However, the regulations in the US get a little cloudy regarding annual inspection. Sludge is right in that there isn't a specific law in 49CFR requiring annual visuals on steel SCUBA cylinders as the CGA document P5, Care of cylinders for Underwater Breathing is not incorporated by reference. BUT there is sufficient evidence that once water gets into a cylinder (especially steel) that it can cause sufficient corrosion to render a cylinder unsafe in less than 1 year. There is a legitimate study on the subject from the University of Rhode Island. As a result of this evidence and most scuba stores requiring annual inspections it has become what's considered "best business practice" so if a failure occurred and someone was hurt or killed it would be exceptionally hard to defend why a cylinder was not inspected following the best business practices.
That being said, inspection is a hurdle for filling and not use. If a cylinder was filled in 1972 and is still full today you could use the contents without any testing or inspection.
There is more to dig into via OSHA (29CFR) regarding annual visuals but since you are not a business and presumably filling yourself at home I won't get into those details here.
Regarding training, I would call Dave from Advanced Hydro Test or contact me personally if you are in cave county Florida either of us could help you with training. Outside of Florida I would suggest checking the PSI/PCI website for an instructor in your area. They have them all over the world. Training usually takes a full 8hr day and costs somewhere in the ball bark of $300.Training is good for 3yrs and a refresher at the 3yr mark is much shorter and costs typically around $100. They always hold training at DEMA though I think COVID may have messed with DEMA.
That was extremely informative.
Thank you
I forgot to add an important detail. Ultimately the manufacture or holder of the special permit will have a great deal of liability and as such may impose additional requirements outside of what is listed in the various DOT/OSHA regulations or CGA booklets. I have not seen a special permit, for a solid wall SCUBA cylinder, with language to indicate annual visual is required but manufactures or permit holders could put that language in there and as such it too would be considered law to the best of my understanding. There are routinely alterations to hydrostatic requalification procedures within the special permit, a good example would be SP14157 from Worthington. If you have cylinders made under a special permit it would be in your interest to familiarize yourself with them. Simply google "DOT SP14157" or whatever your Special permit is and there will be a PDF to reference. It will have design criteria and testing criteria among other information including an expiration date.
Also the refresher can be done online. Was planning on going to Our World Underwater convention in Chicago earlier this year to do it which got canceled. Doing it online was convenient and efficient.
A few of these comments remind me of the lax attitude of cave divers in North Florida when it comes to certain things like VIP, HYDRO, Drastic overfills, and gas analysis. This would barely be a discussion anywhere else in the US. The VIP program, and to be clear the PSI program in particular was crucial to this being created in the industry, has kept the industry relatively safe for decades. It's not perfect, and yes there is a cost, but it has without a doubt prevented accidents. My wife fills thousands of tanks a year and it is scary as #### to see some of the stuff that comes out of them when valves come off. Yes, even from Full Cave divers and Cave Instructors. I'm sorry but I have very little faith in many divers to not just slap a sticker on their tanks either as I have heard and seen it happen. The PSI stickers used to have the inspectors number. Dive shop stickers had a shop you could point back at. Even then I have seen some dumb ####. As examples:
1. From a local cave shop. The sticker was put on after the hydro had expired. The tank boot obviously had never been removed. We had to use a dust pan to pick up all the metal and rust that came off it before we disposed of the tank. That shop was local and no longer in business. The picture is on our website I believe still and if any of you remember the white tank cut in half by my analyzer for a few years, that was it.
2. My wife while doing a VIP on an Oxygen bottle with another shop sticker and found copious silicone smeared all over the neck. Recreational shop, maybe they shouldn't touch Oxygen.
3. My employee asks a customer to bring his tank inside so she could look in it because it was empty. SHE WAS NOT GOING TO CHARGE HIM FOR A VIP. He threw a fit. She didn't back down. She estimates she poured 1/4 tank of water out of it.
4. I have pulled decals off that were clearly installed to cover significant damage.
5. I had a group of CCR divers come through and rent Diluent bottles. After, I am putting different valves on them for the next group. 3 of the 4 diluent bottles they rented were full of water. No oil for the record, fresh spring water.
6. I had a cave instructor with his cylinders. Sidemount bottles. One is perfect, the other was condemned. This happens when a diver drains one of his side mount cylinders and exits on the other and then instead of removing the valve, just goes and refills the tanks. He had rented these routinely and it had clearly been filled with water for some time. Lots of damage and again, no oil film. Clean spring water rust.
7. Cockroaches inside after shipment.
8. Oil and water in tanks after the diver returned from the Bahamas on his boat. Got fills in the islands.
9. Cave instructor tried to put M25 valves on my rental tanks. Goes to the thought that the sticker should be affixed by the facility when it is assembled and filled. He clearly did not understand the valves and certainly shouldn't be doing valve/cylinder maintenance himself.
10. Visible cracks in the necks with VIP stickers less than 2 years old on the tanks (old alloy aluminum).
So guys here are just 10 specific examples. I am sure the guys who have been around longer could give many more stories. So yes, VIP every year from a certified inspector. It may not be perfect, I am not perfect, but let's at least try.
100% agree.
I've seen some crazy things as well. In one instance a cylinder was purchased new from a store that is now closed, filled, and then not used. Owner deployed overseas and cylinder sat around 1 year. He returned home and brought it to us assuming the air inside was expired or unsafe. We told him he could likely still use it but it should be analyzed just to make sure. It had almost no oxygen inside but was fully pressurized so we drained it. There was enough black liquid inside to fill one of those giant cans of planters mixed nuts, cause I poured it into an empty one. The liquid wasn't oily nor had a smell. It's sat for years now and never settled out. The cylinder was corroded beyond recovery and even with multiple tumble washes the liquid was always black. My best guess is the charcoal filter must have been compromised with water so the liquid was probably charcoal water. I still have it as a reminder.
I've found insects, mice, and lizards in cylinders too. The mouse was understandable as the cylinder was stored without a valve but the others came in with valves installed and pressurized.
In over a decade of inspection I condemned about 140 cylinders. Most of sustained load cracking. Several for defects, and 8 during hydro. The vast majority of dangerous flaws are found during inspection making it as important, if not more important, than the hydrostatic pressure test.
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