Emergency

[caveflyer]

I just put this on the NFSA page but know it will end up here so I'll save someone the time and bother;

What constitutes an emergency? Theoretically in cave diving we should have no "emergencies" because we have - by accident analysis - supposedly thought through every possible adverse event and have a contingency action to account for it and survive. So if something "happens" and we take corrective action are we having an "emergency" or are we just terminating our dive earlier than planned using an alternative procedure?. If one of the engines on my two engine airplane quits am I having an emergency or just landing earlier than planned - as it flies perfectly well on one engine (The FAA says it's an "emergency" but they have a legal definition formed in an office). Common sense and good practice would suggest that we hold ourselves (or our team) wholly responsible for the assets and training needed to complete our dive either under nominal or "contingency" situations. Does relying on someone elses interpretation and indication of the cave topology ("way out") meet this requirement? I do not have a good solid 100% answer to either question, but I do have a good, solid 100% answer to how I am going to conduct a given cave dive and what I am going to do in any given scenario that I encounter or can reasonably think of based upon my training and experience. When am I having an emergency? If I am how much do I rely on others to help me survive? Is a silt out an "emergency"? I have after all been trained how to deal with zero visibility conditions. In case you had not realised by now this post refers to the "Lamar Peacock Cookie Controversy" and is intended to further thoughtful and insightful discussion - I am not offering a solid opinion or solution as I do not have one yet. In life some people are catalysts for change, some are not. Sometimes change is difficult, sometimes it is wrong, sometimes it is not. The only way we can find out is to explore and discuss, sometimes starting the discussion is difficult, and painful, and clumsy. Remembering that the final best solution or change will probably take compromise - a seemingly ancient and forgotten art in some aspects these days. When commenting to this post please consider if you have something to add or are simply being sarcastic, attempting humor or criticizing without suggestion.

[Doby45]

Did someone cross over your gold line with their reel?

[Rich]

IMHO the only emergency you can possibly have on a cave dive is "next breath threatened".

Safe diving,

Rich

[caveflyer]

Did someone cross over your gold line with their reel?

"....When commenting to this post please consider if you have something to add or are simply being sarcastic, attempting humor or criticizing without suggestion."

[Dsix36]

The only things that come to my mind that I would consider an emergency incave diving are:

1. There has been a collapse that blocks or restricts the exit.

2. There has been a health oriented problem such as heart attack or seizure.

3. Not enough gas to exit for whatever possible reason.

Sent from my LG-M150 using Tapatalk

[Kelly Jessop]

I just put this on the NFSA page but know it will end up here so I'll save someone the time and bother;

What constitutes an emergency? Theoretically in cave diving we should have no "emergencies" because we have - by accident analysis - supposedly thought through every possible adverse event and have a contingency action to account for it and survive. So if something "happens" and we take corrective action are we having an "emergency" or are we just terminating our dive earlier than planned using an alternative procedure?. If one of the engines on my two engine airplane quits am I having an emergency or just landing earlier than planned - as it flies perfectly well on one engine (The FAA says it's an "emergency" but they have a legal definition formed in an office). Common sense and good practice would suggest that we hold ourselves (or our team) wholly responsible for the assets and training needed to complete our dive either under nominal or "contingency" situations. Does relying on someone elses interpretation and indication of the cave topology ("way out") meet this requirement? I do not have a good solid 100% answer to either question, but I do have a good, solid 100% answer to how I am going to conduct a given cave dive and what I am going to do in any given scenario that I encounter or can reasonably think of based upon my training and experience. When am I having an emergency? If I am how much do I rely on others to help me survive? Is a silt out an "emergency"? I have after all been trained how to deal with zero visibility conditions. In case you had not realised by now this post refers to the "Lamar Peacock Cookie Controversy" and is intended to further thoughtful and insightful discussion - I am not offering a solid opinion or solution as I do not have one yet. In life some people are catalysts for change, some are not. Sometimes change is difficult, sometimes it is wrong, sometimes it is not. The only way we can find out is to explore and discuss, sometimes starting the discussion is difficult, and painful, and clumsy. Remembering that the final best solution or change will probably take compromise - a seemingly ancient and forgotten art in some aspects these days. When commenting to this post please consider if you have something to add or are simply being sarcastic, attempting humor or criticizing without suggestion.

The questions that need to be asked, is change needed because we have a problem that is compromising safety, or are we doing change for change sake. Does instituting change put people in harms way? How to communicate change pervasively so there is no safety issue, and not even one user is omitted?

[ARY]

When you exhausted your response and only have reaction instead. Which applies to anything like having plenty of gas but unable to reach it or leaving on 200 psi through Eye and some team wants to get in first...

[Six Feet Under]

The only things that come to my mind that I would consider an emergency incave diving are:

1. There has been a collapse that blocks or restricts the exit.

2. There has been a health oriented problem such as heart attack or seizure.

3. Not enough gas to exit for whatever possible reason.


Sent from my LG-M150 using Tapatalk

Basically the three things that came to my mind as well. Everything else should be fixable through training, experience, planning, and equipment. Unfortunately, sometimes it takes a close call or uncomfortable situation to really show you the path to correcting an issue you may or may not have known you had (in my case, poor retention of mask removal/replacement ability was the one I knew I had; a reverse block 600ish feet back in Peacock because of blocked sinuses that had to be corrected with daily medication was one I did not know I had).

[Dominic]

Could someone please point me to the "Lamar Peacock Cookie Controversy" ?

[FW]

Could someone please point me to the "Lamar Peacock Cookie Controversy" ?

http://www.cavediver.net/forum/showt...94-P1-Heads-Up!