Wal Mart and Mill Creek/Alachua cave

[Cindy]

I am sad to report that Suwannee River Water Management granted WalMart their permit. With the new speedy permitting laws in the City of Alachua it won't be long now before construction starts. There are several organizations still working on this problems including the NSS, the Sierra Club and others. I am stunned right now but give us time to regroup and I will let you all know what you can do to help in the future. Cindy Butler

[crazyduck]

Cindy,
Looking ahead- if this goes go through it would be helpful if you had a baseline figure of the environment before construction started.

Can you get in monitoring, water quality stations and such measuring devices now?

If you can then it would be helpful if you ever wanted to show the impact of your new vertical neighbor or if you were striving to make certain changes down the road. Just thinking out loud.

Good luck, Andrew

[curtschu]

Please put my name of the waiting list to dive Alachua before it goes away

Curt

[bigbaldberg]

NOT A FLAME, i repeat, NOT A FLAME
ok, what are the chances of that happening next to little river or ginnie? there are far more divers and tourists that utilize those systems and therefore more of a concerned "base" that would quickly come to the aid of all who oppose these types of developments. i'm unsure of the genius of guided only dive sites. i know, it's dangerous, deep, silty, entangled with fallen trees, bla blah blahh. i know it's not a fair to compare LR and ginnie (far more divers had died in these systems) to alachua (deep and dirty) but how about eagles nest (sure divers have died here, but the hunters shoot each other more often). eagles nest is deep and dirty but does not reqiure a guide (but certain qualifications are expected) and is being utilized in ever so much greater numbers. yes, last monday i thought i'd have it to myself, but before i could get geared up 5 other cars pulled up (on a freaking monday). i understand places like diepolder being guided dives (the land owners demand it) and it has kept the cave in awsome condition (did it for the first time last tuesday). i don't know, maybe we have to consider "exploiting" high risk (near potential commercial areas) dive site in order to save them. just my two cents, keep the change...

[Cindy]

Ok Bald Guy, so whats the point you are trying to make? You don't seem to have been in the cave or you would know it's a fantastic cave well worth saving. Mill Creek is a Nature Preserve that is owned by the NSS. It is not now nor has it ever been a commercial dive site. A LOT has happened since June and I will update everyone in the next UWS if Bill has room for another article. The cave was originally kept open and donated to the NSS through the efforts of the guide group. It is on a guide system through a long standing agreement with the City of Alachua and the NSS. It is a very unpredictable and deep system. One more death in that cave and it will be closed. Period.

Any more info will be in the article that I need to write tomorrow. Your not the first person to want to know what is going on with the WalMart issue. We can only fight one battle at a time. Because of the efforts at Mill Creek and the co-operation of the City of High Springs, Alachua County, the Seirra Club, Save our Suwanne, Karst Environmental, the CDS, the NSS, WalMart (more info in the article), and particularly with the help of the Santa Fe Working group along with the Florida DEP we are finally getting some rules changed, some new laws and some protection for the water. A study is indeed in the works and will hopefully get the funding that is needed. We are still working on some other issues like protection of the dry sink on the land. It's been a three year battle for myself and many of the others involved. Please have some patience, some kindness and some respect for the people who are trying very hard to protect this cave and through these efforts protect others. Cindy Butler

[lonestarfl]

Since development appears to be moving forward. I would suggest that we document water quality and cave condition in both hard data, sampling, photos. And make the county, city and Walmart very aware of potential litigation if there is any deterioration/damage to the cave system due to construction or water/effluent run off.
Lee

[bigbaldberg]

sorry, i was gently eluding to the idea of highly restricted sites not having the political clout to defend against development near them. i'm well aware of the ownership, and of the last recovery there (and the resources required to do recovery). i'm wondering if a site that has what, 8-10 guides, (don't know the real numbers, but they are somewhat irelevant) has enough fans (people concerned with saving it). you are correct in the assumption that i have not dived alachua sink (mill creek), there's a locked gate at the enterance. it's not that i don't have the pre-requisite experience or training, thanks i do, but the access limitations (ie. the guide thing) when i dive it, it probably will not be with a guide, but i have not had the inclination to even plan a dive there. anyway, back to the original rant,,,,. i don't know any animal or area that has been saved without MASS apeal, whether through marketing (the tuna net thing killing dolphins) or interactive experiences (exploiting the manatees). how could a couple of acres of land be protected without such mass support. maybe if it was a local builder puting a housing comunity nearby ,maybe. but wallymart, #### very few sites they have chosen have been denied. perhaps with more guides, more people could make use of the site and would come to respect and love it. i don't have all the answers, but i don't think that having a small "clique" of guides doing "occasional" guided dives at site is the best way to protect it...for the simply minded, people will not protect things they have no knowledge of. none of the enviromental groups listed by you cindy have any real clout without an outraged local populice. sorry i don't make the rules, i just figure ways around them

[Cindy]

Read the article when it is published guys. It's more than just the cave as it connects to Hornsby Springs. There are many, many posts on this issue and all you have to do is a look up. You could have read up before posting you could have made a little more objective and educated post. Since you are qualified and if you bothered to get more info on the site you would know that you do not have to have a guide if you meet all the rules. Odd that you claim to know so much but don't know that info. The rules are on the CDS website. I think I may have some knowledge of what is going on in Alachua as I have given many talks on this and they were well attended by both the locals and cave divers. One talk was broadcast on local public TV. There is no outraged public. Where do people come up with this stuff? All I can advise is more info before putting down what you don't understand, less TV and more diving.

Lee the entire cave has been video taped and surveyed. I already stated a study is in the process of being funded. I'm going to bed, rant away and entertain yourselves without me. Cindy

[tomhauburn]

I attended one of the meetings. Everything was pretty civil but most folks did not understand that this system goes to Hornsby and right underneath two new water well fields for two towns. I think folks have gotten a lot done on this project and not to steal any thunder from Cindy's article when it come out, be people will be surprised how much as been achieved. We had some good speakers at that meeting and most people were better informed about our underground rivers afterwards. We as cave divers need to help educate the public for the benefit of our group and for our water supplies. I especially enjoyed Pete Bucks talk at that meeting.

If you want to know why every battle is important you only have to dive someplace like Lafayette Blue to see the effects of pollution. I dove it last year and a couple of weeks ago. I could see a big change and it was not good. Maybe some of it is caused by the lack of rain but I'd hate to see what the Nitrite levels were in that water. I think every system is important and set precedent for the next fight. I was told Sheck said the caves would always be there, but at some point you might want to dive them due to pollution. I appreciate all the folks that are trying to get set a sides, laws on the books to protect underground rivers, and limit our impact on them.

Tom