NO DOUBLES IN GINNIE FOR INTRO CAVERS

[stairman]

i dont think my jeans have anything to do with diving a cave that ive been in several times past,but during the week.however i wouldnt bother making the trip from the river again.i love that system and have no intentions on breaking any of their rules put there to keep people safe.ill get my full cave course completed and all will be good.i find it funny that some folks on here are nice and others are not.

[WJH]

. . . i find it funny that some folks on here are nice and others are not.

Most are nice.

You hit a topic that was recently and hotly debated, with strong feelings on both sides (three sides?) of the issue. Some times strong feelings about a topic appear to be meanness directed toward the one who brought it up, but they are rarely intended to be so.

That and your shouting (through inexperience) brought on some abrupt replies.

Stick around. You'll enjoy the ride. Perhaps read more than you write for awhile to get a feel for the place.

WJH

[stairman]

Ive been reading posts on here for a little over a year now,but being new to cave diving,never really had anything to say.I thought writing that doubles werent allowed as an intro'ermight save someone a trip,or dissapointment.Since they dont tell you this when your registering,but tell you at the waters edge.

[Kelly Jessop]

WELL ILL BE GETTING MY APPRENTICE IN ABOUT A MONTH SO ILL JUST DIVE PEACOCK ECT.

Although not as well enforced,the same thing does apply to Peacock.

[Signal 20]

The Shallow End of the Gene Pool is where the tubers get in the water.

true, but thats where all the teenage females go....For once I would like to actually see them for more than acouple seconds while they drive past the eye

[Rich]

Ive been reading posts on here for a little over a year now,but being new to cave diving,never really had anything to say.I thought writing that doubles werent allowed as an intro'ermight save someone a trip,or dissapointment.Since they dont tell you this when your registering,but tell you at the waters edge.

Actually, per standards, this should have been discussed with the student by their cave instructor....

Safe diving,

Rich

[Cave Ranger]

Lusting after teenage girls riding innertubes Aye Titen?? I'm telling your Mother
When I got my "Intro" I trained in Doubles and my instructor signed off on my temp card as a Discretionary Apprentice. I was allowed to dive Doubles, and use the rule of thirds, but it specifically stated "No Solo", "No Jumps".
I thought that was a fair allowance at the time and I abided by it.
It would be nice if the NSS-CDS made this more official, The change to calling it "Basic Cave" seems like a positive step.

[Genesis]

TDI's Intro card has no doubles restriction on it (and the restrictions are on the card ITSELF) - also missing is "no solo", so under agency rules you're entitled to dive solo if you'd like as well.

So it appears right now that a NSS/CDS, TDI or The-Agency-That-Must-Not-Be-Named permit doubles at Intro level, and TDI at least has no issue with solo diving.

What they used to call it (CDS) is not material; their current standards permit doubles at "intro" level.

Thus, the only "mainstream" agency that insists you dive LESS SAFE at the present time is NACD. Something to think about...

FWIW I will not go in an overhead without doubles. If Ginnie wants to play the game of "let's make people dive LESS SAFE" to the point that they want to impose rules beyond what an agency requires they of course are entitled to do so as the land is their property. I am of course entitled to give them the finger.

My understanding was that this was resolved with the recent changes to the NSS-CDS standards. If not, well, that's cool - I will vote with my wallet.

If they want to play that game I will come by boat and bring two flags for my mast - one dive flag and one of a middle finger salute. That's perfectly legal and while I'm sure they won't like it there's not a thing they can do about it. I think I'll bring a scooter along too. Not only will I choose to insult them, they won't get my money this way either.

Find a friend with a pontoon or small skiff. The best response to stupidity is found through your wallet.

[Walter Pickel]

The Shallow End of the Gene Pool is where the tubers get in the water.

true, but thats where all the teenage females go....For once I would like to actually see them for more than acouple seconds while they drive past the eye

You guys wil be at the conference this weekend...we will be in the shallow end of the gene pool doing power tubing!

[johnnyrichards]

In as simple language as possible:

Ginnie Springs is privately owned.

Ginnie Springs has no obligation to the cave "community".

For thirty years, Ginnie has seen fit to provide access to Devil's Cave System from their property.

Ginnie most certainly does not require the relatively small revenue generated by cave divers.

Ginnie follows the Standards set by each agency.

NACD and NSS-CDS Intro to Cave Diver does not permit the use of doubles without a Provisional/Discretionary Apprentice.

NSS-CDS Basic Cave permits the use of doubles to one-sixth of gas supply.

How difficult is any of that?

Perhaps if Ginnie shut their doors to cave diving for thirty days or so, we would appreciate the value of what they have provided us instead of whining and complaining that we are not the beneficiaries of some imagined entitlement.

For those of you who want to ##### about Ginnie, please use the river for access. That might actually limit the time you have to spend behind your keyboards.

Johnny Richards