Accident Analysis

[Kelly Jessop]

I think that many want details to convince themselves it'll never happen to them.

Exactly right! I have said several times in posts the human defense mechanism rationalization.

[tbone1004]

I'm happy the IUCRR folks pull bodies, they don't owe writing up crap for us.

if they don't want to write up anything for us *which they technically do*, then they have to specifically remove that as something their organization does. Their website very clearly states they they owe it to us, and they are choosing not to. Some quotes from their website

"Bottom line is, if we can post the information, we will post it."

"It is also pertinent to know that we do not hold any information back, with one exception noted below. Once the recovery divers have written their report, law-enforcement has released that information, and the regional coordinator has checked it for accuracy and approved it, the information is posted on this web site. No information is withheld, with the exception of the victim's name (and, sometimes, the buddy(ies) name(s)). "

"have a single-point for consolidation of accident reports, and provide accident analysis services for the benefit of all underwater-overhead divers. "

so, why do you say "they don't owe writing up crap for us"? If they don't want to, that's fine, but rewrite everything above to remove the very specific parts where they say they will, because they aren't

[OFG-1]

What changed in the last 10 years that they are now choosing not to publish useful reports?

IMHO, what has changed is the overall vitriol and general nastiness that is floating around today. It is not just a matter of the amount of self serving speculation anymore, it is the overall tone of most conversations, particularly on social media, and from members of the diving community. This thread is an example.

You need to come to a couple of basic conclusions.
1 - No recovery diver is doing it for personal enjoyment, at least I hope not. It you are, seek help. It is a community service.
2 - IUCRR was established as an organization that assists law enforcement. They were never a public information service. I will agree that since Ken has taken over, the public information has basically stopped.
3 - People who demand instant answers, and then hound recovery divers or post page after page of stupid analysis based on no facts are idiots, and look at any accident thread, we have a lot of idiots.
4 - Accidents can happen to you. You are not immune. You can study every case, do mindful reflections, talk to peers, take additional training (just not from CDS), doesn't matter, you are not immune. I have found that experience is the best remedy, but just remember, anyone can fark up.

You guys doing recovery dives, thank you. It is a public service, and is appreciated. My advise is that the next time one of the good ole boys pressure you into shutting up, tell them in no uncertain terms to F6ck Off. Tell them that if they cannot come up with a factual report in a few weeks, that you will. Ted and that team did a pretty good job of releasing facts on the EN incident, maybe not everything, but certainly better than nothing. No one was sued, no one was prosecuted, no one had their birthday taken away from them, or caught a STD.

LiteHedded, it is only status quo as long as there is a supply of recovery divers willing to accept it. Don't push all the blame off on IUCRR. Or the so called good ole boys. When they run out of people willing to uproot their lives, spend their money and time and expose themselves to the risks involved, you can bet your mamas dimpled ass that it will change.

Finally, I am not sure who told any of you that you were entitled to all the facts being published for you without you actually doing something on your own to obtain them, but they were lying to you.

[tbone1004]

Finally, I am not sure who told any of you that you were entitled to all the facts being published for you without you actually doing something on your own to obtain them, but they were lying to you.

well, the IUCRR does on their website....

"Bottom line is, if we can post the information, we will post it."

"It is also pertinent to know that we do not hold any information back, with one exception noted below. Once the recovery divers have written their report, law-enforcement has released that information, and the regional coordinator has checked it for accuracy and approved it, the information is posted on this web site. No information is withheld, with the exception of the victim's name (and, sometimes, the buddy(ies) name(s)). "

"have a single-point for consolidation of accident reports, and provide accident analysis services for the benefit of all underwater-overhead divers. "

[LiteHedded]

IMHO, what has changed is the overall vitriol and general nastiness that is floating around today. It is not just a matter of the amount of self serving speculation anymore, it is the overall tone of most conversations, particularly on social media, and from members of the diving community. This thread is an example.

You need to come to a couple of basic conclusions.
1 - No recovery diver is doing it for personal enjoyment, at least I hope not. It you are, seek help. It is a community service.
2 - IUCRR was established as an organization that assists law enforcement. They were never a public information service. I will agree that since Ken has taken over, the public information has basically stopped.
3 - People who demand instant answers, and then hound recovery divers or post page after page of stupid analysis based on no facts are idiots, and look at any accident thread, we have a lot of idiots.
4 - Accidents can happen to you. You are not immune. You can study every case, do mindful reflections, talk to peers, take additional training (just not from CDS), doesn't matter, you are not immune. I have found that experience is the best remedy, but just remember, anyone can fark up.

You guys doing recovery dives, thank you. It is a public service, and is appreciated. My advise is that the next time one of the good ole boys pressure you into shutting up, tell them in no uncertain terms to F6ck Off. Tell them that if they cannot come up with a factual report in a few weeks, that you will. Ted and that team did a pretty good job of releasing facts on the EN incident, maybe not everything, but certainly better than nothing. No one was sued, no one was prosecuted, no one had their birthday taken away from them, or caught a STD.

LiteHedded, it is only status quo as long as there is a supply of recovery divers willing to accept it. Don't push all the blame off on IUCRR. Or the so called good ole boys. When they run out of people willing to uproot their lives, spend their money and time and expose themselves to the risks involved, you can bet your mamas dimpled ass that it will change.

Finally, I am not sure who told any of you that you were entitled to all the facts being published for you without you actually doing something on your own to obtain them, but they were lying to you.

i've done more than one recovery and I've seen it handled both ways and no one got sued of course.
i know which way i prefer, and I'm sure most people would agree.

[OFG-1]

well, the IUCRR does on their website....

"Bottom line is, if we can post the information, we will post it."

"It is also pertinent to know that we do not hold any information back, with one exception noted below. Once the recovery divers have written their report, law-enforcement has released that information, and the regional coordinator has checked it for accuracy and approved it, the information is posted on this web site. No information is withheld, with the exception of the victim's name (and, sometimes, the buddy(ies) name(s)). "

"have a single-point for consolidation of accident reports, and provide accident analysis services for the benefit of all underwater-overhead divers. "

Read their mission statement. Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Call Ken, talk to him. Stop whining. For Christs sake man, bitching and moaning will get you nothing.

Don't you understand the position they are in. If they post nothing, people B!tch. If they are not timely in posting, people B!tch If the report does not meet some sort of perceived standard people B!tch. What is the upside for them to do anything? IUCRR is performing a community service, but when the community is full of nasty, demanding jackholes, why should they care?

[OFG-1]

no one got sued of course.

Yes, but did anyone get a STD?

[LiteHedded]

Yes, but did anyone get a STD?

Uncertain.

[FW]

...no one got sued of course...

Yes, but did anyone get a STD?

Uncertain.

[perryL927]

I came in late to this discussion. Can someone give me a synopsis?