Accident Analysis

[kensuf]

at least with the ginnie recovery, i was told to stfu but then someone who was not part of the recovery team posted a bunch of details. with at least one fact knowingly wrong

Right? Man that whole thing sucked.

[PfcAJ]

FWIW, I was at the very first recovery "class". I was the NSS-CDS training director at the time. Henry Nicholson had asked Sheck Exlely and me to set up the class. It is important to understand that Henry was a policeman, and most of what we covered was how to treat the recovery as a "crime scene". The current head of IUCRR is a former US Marshal. The IUCRR is concerned that if the various Sheriff's departments loose faith in the ability of the IUCRR to maintain the crime scene until the investigation is over, that law enforcement agencies won't allow the IUCRR to enter the crime scene. The local Sheriff's departments could go as far as closing the spring, if the local law enforcement isn't able to conduct the recovery themselves.

While I would love for the information listed in earlier posts to become immediately available, I also understand the IUCRR's caution in waiting for law enforcement to declare the case closed. The sad part is that law enforcement is only interested in the possibility of a crime, so once they have determined it was actually an accident, they are in no hurry to declare the case closed.

This is totally at odds with how the police actually conduct themselves at one of these incidents.

[JohnnyC]

I'm not sure what a recovery diver would be sued for. IANAL though so......

It seems to me that any of the divers might be called to testify in court, but I'm not sure how releasing any information would subject the diver to legal action as long as they're not speculating or saying anything libelous.

[tbone1004]

I'm not sure what a recovery diver would be sued for. IANAL though so......

It seems to me that any of the divers might be called to testify in court, but I'm not sure how releasing any information would subject the diver to legal action as long as they're not speculating or saying anything libelous.

real simple. The divers don't release it. The IUCRR does and gets liability insurance or whatever. Any diver acting under the IUCRR is protected under that policy and that policy is covered by donations, hopefully from the training agencies themselves. No different than the cops having to have liability insurance. The IUCRR divers send in their reports, the IUCRR compiles the information and releases a report in a timely manner. There is nothing they can get sued over for that information getting released, and if they did, the IUCRR deals with it because they were acting as an IUCRR diver. No different than when I am teaching for the University under their courses. I am covered by their umbrella policy because I am acting on their behalf. If someone goes after me, they go through the University, no different with this. The problem is the leadership of the IUCRR don't want to bother with that so they keep on obstructing the cave diving communities ability to conduct accident analysis by refusing to publish facts.

[OFG-1]

Ken Hill and the rest of the IUCRR leadership are intentionally preventing the cave diving community from being able to conduct accident analysis.

What would Ken or IUCRR gain from this?

[FW]

This is totally at odds with how the police actually conduct themselves at one of these incidents.

I agree. For the most part the officers on scene are glad to have help.

[tbone1004]

What would Ken or IUCRR gain from this?

not having to put the effort forward to actually do it, potentially ego driven from holding all the information, but likely just not wanting to change and put the effort forward

[cmint]

Lawsuits against who? What would the basis be for suing a recovery diver?

Hypothetically, if a piece of expensive gear were lost by the deceased during the accident, and a recovery diver was falsely accused of taking it, having made a public statement in writing could potentially incriminate them even if they are innocent.

Homework assignment:

Watch this, it may save your behind one day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

[tbone1004]

Hypothetically, if a piece of expensive gear were lost by the deceased during the accident, and a recovery diver was falsely accused of taking it, having made a public statement in writing could potentially incriminate them even if they are innocent.

Homework assignment:

Watch this, it may save your behind one day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

I don't think we are all asking the divers to make a public statement. The IUCRR should be publishing the information, not the individuals

[Kelly Jessop]

"be patient, we're getting all the information together, we'll release information when it's ready," only for time to pass and the promised information never actually gets released. .

We want a rapid report frequently, often to satisfy curiosity ,but does anybody ever go after the report, or do we stand by social media hoping it will appear. If a cave diving accident is treated as a crime scene, then that means it is investigated by law enforcement, and a report is released-which can and will take time. Does anybody ever request the information from the ME or police department conducting the investigation when the report is completed???