Open water divers cave diving

[OFG-1]

Unless I am mistaken, every cave diver is also an open water diver. Everyone starts somewhere. You have sites all over the state where open water divers are in overhead conditions if it is wrecks, caverns, or caves. I am not advocating for this, but it has been reality since I started diving in the late 60's. All of you should avoid going straight to your fainting couch every time you see it, cause the odds are that most of you did the same thing at some point.

I think you also may have some perception bias. Over the years, unless your head is firmly up your anus, you have been getting better at what you do. This has been in part to all of the dumbass things you did and decided that you do not have to do again.

It also seems that everyone forgets that they started out at some point, and even the most talented people I have known have smacked the overhead and occasionally put a fin down. It is easy to convince yourself that you are THE expert and ridicule people. Over the years, it hasn't changed anything, we just get another generation of self proclaimed experts as the people that take cave classes churns away, and people come and go in the sport.

IMHO, what I think would help more than anything is if the agencies set up some sort of voluntary mentoring program for newly certified cave divers. Now this would only work if the mentors weren't ginormous jackholes about everything and take it upon themselves to tell every person they mentor what a clusterfark their instructor was.

[madmosche]

I'll jump in and give my 2 cents. I experienced a bad instructor a number of years ago who was guilty of this. At first, the other students and I had no idea that we were going into places that we weren't supposed to be in, with gear configurations that were not appropriate. However once realizing this, I found a new instructor and started to get proper training. The guilty instructor was reported to the training agencies he/she taught for and their instructor certs were revoked. That's how the system is supposed to work. If someone who is not an instructor is doing this, report them to the owner/manager of the dive site and to the agencies they are affiliated with. They can be banned from the dive site(s) and/or expelled from organizations they are a member of.

Most of the people who are victims of this are open water divers being taken to Ginnie for the first time and think that they are under the supervision of a highly skilled technical diving instructor. It is not these victims' fault that they have been misled or outright lied to. We need to have easier ways of reaching the interested public and leading them to the right instructor if they are interested in overhead diving. Next time you see OW divers at Ginnie or Orange Grove who are obviously interested in the cavern, rather than make fun of them you should introduce yourself and talk to them about their diving experience. Are they local or visiting? Do they need recommendations for dive sites or an instructor for overhead training? Maybe they don't even know that Cavern training exists. I ran into 2 young men from Auburn University who were diving Jug a few weeks ago, they were unaware that there is a specific class called Cavern that they can take without buying all new types of gear. I gave them the contact info for 2 instructors who had upcoming cavern classes.

Another recommendation would be to set up a "cave diving" booth in one of the pavillions at Ginnie or Peacock. Have a couple of CDS volunteers hang out on a Saturday, talk to OW divers, provide info about Cavern and Cave training. Give away a few dollars worth of swag that has our website printed on it. Not difficult stuff here.

OFG- agreed with your mentoring idea. I know 3 or 4 very good active CDS instructors who already do this (privately). They make it a point to introduce their students to other cave divers they know, and set them up to dive together. It ensures that the new student has some good buddies that will stay within their limits.

[Six Feet Under]

Most of the people who are victims of this are open water divers being taken to Ginnie for the first time and think that they are under the supervision of a highly skilled technical diving instructor. It is not these victims' fault that they have been misled or outright lied to. We need to have easier ways of reaching the interested public and leading them to the right instructor if they are interested in overhead diving. Next time you see OW divers at Ginnie or Orange Grove who are obviously interested in the cavern, rather than make fun of them you should introduce yourself and talk to them about their diving experience. Are they local or visiting? Do they need recommendations for dive sites or an instructor for overhead training? Maybe they don't even know that Cavern training exists. I ran into 2 young men from Auburn University who were diving Jug a few weeks ago, they were unaware that there is a specific class called Cavern that they can take without buying all new types of gear. I gave them the contact info for 2 instructors who had upcoming cavern classes.

Another recommendation would be to set up a "cave diving" booth in one of the pavillions at Ginnie or Peacock. Have a couple of CDS volunteers hang out on a Saturday, talk to OW divers, provide info about Cavern and Cave training. Give away a few dollars worth of swag that has our website printed on it. Not difficult stuff here.

OFG- agreed with your mentoring idea. I know 3 or 4 very good active CDS instructors who already do this (privately). They make it a point to introduce their students to other cave divers they know, and set them up to dive together. It ensures that the new student has some good buddies that will stay within their limits.

I agree with all three ideas, Kyle. My instructor has introduced me to several other students so we could dive together in the future, and offered to allow me to sit in on other classes to get more experience and practice the same emergency drills the student is doing.

[Benderr]

What I was referring to was the portion of the fundamentals class where people actually learn to fin kick and keep their trim and buoyancy properly. That also includes to ditch fairy fanning.

Actually, I agree with this point ^. I believe I may have misread your post. Apologies.

[Jax]

Recently I received an e-mail in the form of a complaint of someone taking unqualified divers cave diving.

This complaint was filed with the NSS-CDS BoD. Has an investigation begun into these allegations?

Thread has rapidly gone off-topic and into person and agency bashing. Cool off for a bit and remember the subject. It is not instructors.