Ginnie

[rddvet]

Certainly agree but not ready to write it off. If there was ever a place for conservation and restore wok Ginnie is it. Would like to see areas close off to use for a while and undergo some restorative repair work. Sort of like the nps does for trails in parks. to some extent it is possible to erase handprints, knee gouges, scooter marks etc.

Are we really gonna go around fixing all the caves? Thats ridiculous. The work done to remove grafitti, fix the whale bones and the clay banks were great. Should we start cleaning up all the caves? Hell no. And I hope the CDS conservation efforts dont move in that direction.


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[Kelly Jessop]

Are we really gonna go around fixing all the caves? Thats ridiculous. The work done to remove grafitti, fix the whale bones and the clay banks were great. Should we start cleaning up all the caves? Hell no. And I hope the CDS conservation efforts dont move in that direction.


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You know Bill isn't too far off. Ideally fix the cave divers that have issues,but being able to address cave damage is critical to future access. The question that has been asked by some land owners is what is happening inside my cave, with the concern for conservation. Dry cavers have secured their access to sites by addressing damage and vandalism, this is a subject we will need to answer in the future.

[rddvet]

You know Bill isn't too far off. Ideally fix the cave divers that have issues,but being able to address cave damage is critical to future access. The question that has been asked by some land owners is what is happening inside my cave, with the concern for conservation. Dry cavers have secured their access to sites by addressing damage and vandalism, this is a subject we will need to answer in the future.

In my opinion wide scale "fixing" of the cave could be as bad as the damage already created.
Whats been done so far is fine. Pushing that on a grande scale has the potential to cause the same harm as the original damage did. Add to that, if people think the crap they do will be fixed by someone else, the issue will never be resolved.


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[CHartmann]

Alright, I have got to ask. What is the problem with a scuffed up cave? Does it affect much beyond the aesthetics? I get that a silt out is bad for divers but how does it REALLY affect the cave system?

[Kelly Jessop]

Alright, I have got to ask. What is the problem with a scuffed up cave? Does it affect much beyond the aesthetics? I get that a silt out is bad for divers but how does it REALLY affect the cave system?

Aesthetic is obviously a personal experience. To me scuffed cave can suggest poor cave diver technique,but it has man made markings where nature has formed something unique and special. How wonderful would Old Faithful be if there was a billboard next to it advertising the Comfort Inn down the road. Would that NY Strip steak at Ruth's Chris Steak House be equally as enjoyable on paper plates and plastic utensils. These are just examples, and of course there will be contrarians. Most importantly, we have an obligation to be the protector of underwater caves and provide conservation for future visitors,but most importantly our concern and efforts reward us with future access,because trust me there are people who are concerned with the condition of their cave systems, and ask that question frequently. Dry cavers have it right and have gained credibility when it comes to cave conservation. We don't share the same lessons, because we are divers who go into caves, not cavers at heart. The one problem is that most cave divers enter the sport and stay for approximately 3 years, so damage over time isn't really noted as much. I am biased, because I remember these caves 20+ years ago, and compared to now they have really suffered. The irony is that the mid-90s was the boom for cave training with more people entering the sport than even, and the caves were in better shape after that era than now.

[Six Feet Under]

The irony is that the mid-90s was the boom for cave training with more people entering the sport than even, and the caves were in better shape after that era than now.

I'd be willing to bet that most natural formations or parks were in better shape then, irregardless of the number of visitors. Most people don't care about anything or anyone but themselves these days.

[Kelly Jessop]

I'd be willing to bet that most natural formations or parks were in better shape then, irregardless of the number of visitors. Most people don't care about anything or anyone but themselves these days.

Unfortunately self responsibility seems to factor very lowly. If someone is having a bad day and silting a lot, or attempting a passage that is beyond their level, instead of turning and exiting, the need to push on is there, mutually exclusive to the impact that is caused. I did a survey a couple years ago for an article on cave conservation education for UWS, and one factor I found is that newer cave divers cave conservation training was between zero and 30 minutes duration for their course. The NSSCDS and NACD made cave conservation a primary mission,but for some of these other agencies, the education in this area is almost nonexistent. So, how can we expect newer cave divers to have a regard for cave conservation when their education and training to protect the resource practically doesn't exist. So when I say we are generally divers who go in cave and not cave divers, because cavers understand the resource and protect it, we don't.

[rblackburn]

If you're an active cave diver in NFL and you don't have a G pass that kinda makes you a chump, IMHO...

Safe diving,

Rich

Hello everyone, my name is Richard and I'm a Chump.

There are too many diveable caves for me to justify to myself paying $300 to dive just one of them. I may go to Ginnie a couple of times a year. I like the cave, but hate the crowds.

[jerrwhy01]

Hello everyone, my name is Richard and I'm a Chump.

There are too many diveable caves for me to justify to myself paying $300 to dive just one of them. I may go to Ginnie a couple of times a year. I like the cave, but hate the crowds.

Ditto!

[rddvet]

If you only dive ginnie 2-3 times a year a pass isnt worth it. Though I will say only having ro fill out that form once a year is awesome. I had a copy from their website I used a pdf editor to complete with all of my info which made life alot easier


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