Have you ever been to Florida Caverns State Park in Marianna? It is a "dry cave" state park, not so different from Peacock, Manatee, etc. If we don't convince the state of FL that we (cave divers) are concerned for conservation in the UW state parks, they may adopt the same "rules" for the UW parks that they have in Marianna.
For those that have never been there, the only way to see the cave is with a guide
Forrest you are absolutely right. Many people I think to chose to ignore the writing on the wall,but I have seen more interest in this area by the state in the last year than I've ever seen. We as the cave diving community need to be very proactive in this area,and not leave it to the other guy to worry about. The thesis statement of cave diving in the future-public access continued but with restrictions applied by land owners.Originally Posted by FW
Have you ever been to Florida Caverns State Park in Marianna? It is a "dry cave" state park, not so different from Peacock, Manatee, etc. If we don't convince the state of FL that we (cave divers) are concerned for conservation in the UW state parks, they may adopt the same "rules" for the UW parks that they have in Marianna.
For those that have never been there, the only way to see the cave is with a guide
I don't see the state agencies in an advisarial relationship with Cave Divers. There is a lot of work to be done with any non-cave diving group and it will take well seasoned and motivated men like Kelly and Forrest to keep that going. You can't force anyone into keeping caves open. We are a very small minority in the big scheme of things. By providing information and working with the state like the teams of cave divers now doing that type of work (WKPP,Old Bellamy, Peacock CSO, the Dive Rite team and KTE) we can show how much of a resource cave divers can be and get closed caves open to as many as possible. Like Kelly said we need to continue to work with these people to get things done. The future is there for us to form our relationships in, we can either fight with people or co-operate with people, work in conjunction with these agencies and educate every chance we get. I happen to think the later works better, Cindy Butler
"Philosophy is a purely personal matter. A genuine philosopher's credo is the outcome of a single complex personality; it cannot be transferred. No two persons, if sincere, can have the same philosophy."
--Havelock Ellis
Correct me if I'm wrong
One of the things that seem to affect our work at access is that there are few set rules within the agencies that govern access. While I abhor more government involvement in my life I get very frustrated when one of the groups makes great headway with the current manager of a given location. Suddenly this manager gets transferred, promoted or fired, what have you and the process has to start all over again. It boggles the mind that local managers have so much control over a public resource.
We have shown at Manatee, Peacock, and Madison Etc. that we as a group are good stewards of the UW cave resources, (there are exceptions out there I know). Wouldn't it be in our best interest to sit down with the high level powers that be and show them as a unified group that we can continue to be good stewards and work hand in hand to preserve both the above and below ground aspects of the State held lands? There has been MUCH discord among this group over this aspect of our sport, “ssshhh don’t talk about it you’ll ruin it” Peoples feeling have been hurt over it. I hate this. What is the ultimate goal? To explore new and interesting cave systems and preserve the existing systems for the future and to educate those that expresses an interest in what lies below their feet.
How many of you have talked to a “Local” and answered the question “What’d you see down thar in that hole” This guy might not look like much but he might be the son or brother of some county official, who knows. This is part of our stewardship. The locals are part of the resource and those relationship must be protected too if we are to continue our sport. This started as a question of “where will cave diving be in ten years” I believe we all have a good idea of the future and can see technology is going to play a large role. But the biggest factor we as a group can affect is access. We can ensure access by presenting a unified front with logical arguments, without snipping each other. We need to join with other fringe users of the resource (campers, mountain bikers and dry cavers etc.) to show we are not a threat to the resource by virtue of our activity, (cave divers don’t sue).
Anyway, a long winded comment with a short message, JOIN together! How did it go?
“We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately!”
Curt
Curt, I believe this once again comes back to "first principles".
In order to "hang together" we must first define what we're trying to achieve and have consensus in that realm.
This is why I believe we need a sea change in how we look at cave diving - and we need to present this as a united front to everyone.
As divers, we need to present that we:
1. Are aware of the risks and choose to go anyway because we perceive a personal reward that is worth the risks.
2. Insist that our private decision to do so be just as respected as is the private decision of two consenting adults to engage in "adult activities" behind a closed door, even though the consequence of that activity may be debilitation or death.
3. That we understand and respect the issues surrounding liability and we want a permanent solution for those issues via a one-sentence addition to the "Sportsman Act" (and its companion in the FAC related to parkland). Until such is made we are willing to sign whatever waiver(s) are necessary to give landowners (including the state) precisely the same protections that should be ensconced in statute.
4. That we WILL use our economic and political power to the benefit of those agencies and organizations that respect this point of view, and likewise, WILL punish those who refuse.
Adopting this posture means the end of the "dive club" mentality that many have. It also means a major sea change in how agencies and instructors market themselves.
None of this can come from the top down. It can only come from the bottom up, when divers decide, as a group, that they simply will not tolerate anything less.
Without this sea change IMHO you better get yourself a boat - and even that may not be good enough, as the direction that has been adopted by these organizations over the last couple of decades could easily be pushed a bit further to erase THAT form of freedom as well - at least for caves.
Re: You said it
Funny how that works he? My mind is 'empty' when I cave dive too, just me, my buddy and equipment is what I always say
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks