Is JP doing that in Bonaire or is this pre-crime?Originally Posted by bent
Welcome to the Cave Diver's Forum.
Is JP doing that in Bonaire or is this pre-crime?
I don't know anything about Bonaire, I just get cranky when I hear anything Mallorca related.
Here are my 2 cents. In May 2015 I was on Mallorca and I had 2 local guides, some guys from the island that have been cave diving forever over there. I was granted access to a specific cave, had permission from the landlord, but it was cancelled last minute. The wrong people got word from it and guardia civil was waiting for us. I would have been in jail and lost all my gear I have would showed up. So we went to another location.
There is an active speleology society on the island, but there a lot of internal political turmoil, which makes getting in the caves really uncertain, even with permission. I was planning to return in September 2015 and I immediately in May already had to send in copies of my certs and insurance and they could not guarantee me that I could get clearance. This was already going on a year before JP came to Mallorca.
Basically in that close to 2 year since I was on Mallorca nothing has changed.
Now on the topic of Bonaire, we will not disclose the cave locations. On the other hand a lot of work has to be done. Because of all the secrecy in the past the exact locations of several already explored caves are currently unknown. Lines need to cleaned up, mapping needs to be done. Since the dry caves of Bonaire have a big impact on the island and we know nothing of the wet caves, that needs to documented and researched.
Besides that the caves that we (re)discovered are not easily accesible, so it is not like going to France, Mexico or Florida and just jump in. Chances of roads towards the caves are virtually zero. I think it is a great chance that a well reknown and professional photographer like JP is coming to Bonaire documenting our wonderful caves. Hopefully our caves will get a little bit more known and we get momentum for our (re)discovery, documentation and conservation.
All help is welcome... If you are interested and want to know more about the Bonaire caves and see what is going on, please check out the local speleology website.
Were you actually told so by guardia or just by some guy? One year in jail for trespassing? Sounds like someone was trying to give you a BS story. Was it at Gleda or at the V?
Sounds great! Do you live on Bonaire?
It was at Gleda. The landlord called the guides the night before that it was not possible. And it was not 1 year in jail, but I would have been put away for 1 or 2 days or so.
I think it was genuine, because we already had been preparing the dive, gone over the map and where we would go to, since they wanted me to make some footage. And the guides wanted to show me 1 of the places that they most recently had been mapping.
Anyway, what I was trying to say is that it was already difficult to get into caves in spring 2015, because of local politics.
Yes I do and I have been lucky enough to have seen some of the beautiful caves here.
The one year thing was a brain fart, I think someone else told me that. The Gleda was already closed in September of 2014, I thinkt... really sucks, it's such a awesome cave. It is due to politics and people screwing up... people posting footage on youtube played a role in it though, that's what drew a lot of attention.
Can normal people go or is it permission only?
Anyone can go, but nobody has a permit. However it is very fortunate not many people know where to go. Let's keep it that way.
Sounds familiar.
Once people start putting vidoes on youtube and posting stuff on FB, the cat is out of the bag.
If you can find it, you can go in. However the number of people knowing the location is small. And even if they know they might not want to tell you.
Finding the caves is indeed the main challenge. Whatever we will do, we will not post locations, just names. See for example at the CARIBSS website.
However since we do not know the importance of the caves to our arid island, research is needed. And for example we need to discover why far inland the caves are already completely salty on a relatively shallow depth.
What we have seen so far, no cave is suitable for mass cave diving tourism. Fortunately the entrances are also not really diver friendly. You must put in some effort to get there. Where we will be going tomorrow, you need to count on 2 hours of hauling equipment in the blistering sun to get there, unless you have the luxury of a support team, but I have not had that luxury so far.
There is a high chance that people with talk to each others and the less aware of preservation will always release the locations and so on till the point to build a fence to prevent the access, like in Spelonk. As I said, even if the pics of JPBresser are impressives, i do not think it will bring the right people with the rigth behavior. But let's see...
But you are absolutly true it is really difficult to find the entrances, as long as you don't know what to look for. Now with Google Earth, it becomes more easy to cross-checks differents sources of information, like old topographical maps form the 60', water studies from well known biologists, etc etc. Fortunatly in Caribliss, you get the knowledge of Fernando Simal and the previous work from the NSS team of Burges-Guilleland and more recently Rob Harris.
Let's say, without any help for a tourist like me, it took me some hours to find Cueva Uruguan di Suid (tricky but obvious when you look back in Earth), the "Flow Bonaire Wet cave" is really easy, and Wajaka (where you went today according to the pics i saw on FB) is not complicated but carrying the stuff is a nightmare. There is a LOT of interresting points according to waters studies, but a lot are pumped for agricultural purpose, with a windmill on top, or at least a concrete dam, and within private properties. I'm sure there is "big" systems to be discovered or connecting sumps, on Santa Barbera and Lima.
Here is for exemple the quiet pool of Cueva Uruguan how it was in 2014, how it has always been, and how it has to remain.
Fred M.
IANTD Full Cave Diver
Belgium Speleo Society (UBS)
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