Eagles Nest Line To Be Cut Back

[DMoore]

As part of the NSS-CDS accident prevention mission and as part of my role as Eagles Nest Safety Officer I have requested that Colt Smith, one of the IUCRR recovery divers, cut back the line that leads to the restriction where we believe the recent tragedy occurred.

This is part of an effort to be proactive in accident prevention. Our rationale is that areas of the cave requiring special expertise to negotiate should not be inviting and easy to find. Hopefully this will encourage newcomers to seek out information and knowledge from others who have been there.

Also, I would like to report that I have spoken to IUCRR and the data analysis has not been completed as of yet. I have been assured that when it is complete there will be an analysis of same and it will be made available to all who are interested.

I would also like to thank all of you who have shown restraint and resisted the urge to speculate out of consideration for the survivors of the decedents. We all want to know what is fact and what is fiction.

Respectfully,

Joe Citelli
Chairman, NSS-CDS


Thoughts????

[LiteHedded]

My first thoughts are that it's a stupid idea

[jlillest]

My first thoughts are that it's a stupid idea

Yeah, maybe so, but in a reactionary environment where people expect the agencies to do something/anything after a stressful event like this then it's a pretty reasonable compromise. The agencies get to seem proactive and it doesn't really affect diving too much, even those that could make the dive there.

I'm glad that the CDS is involved (as they have been in the past). The action is probably better as a reminder that they're involved then us not seeing anything happen and them getting grief for not being involved. Big thanks to the CDS, by the way.

-Jon

[bamafan]

What is next after someone else makes a bad decision and hacks themself? Pulling all the line out?

[LiteHedded]

So the next accident will be a similar situation but also entangled in line.

[PfcAJ]

Cutting back the line is as moronic as closing the cave. Trying to protect people from themselves.

Cave diving is for grown ups. Make grown up decisions.

[lv2dive]

Really AJ? I rarely disagree with you but this is a strong statement. Personally I would object a whole lot more to the closure of the cave than to the line being cut back. I would think that you would as well.

I agree cave diving is for grown ups - 100%. Unfortunately, we live in a world where regardless of our acceptance of personal risk, public perception is and will continue to be an issue that has to be managed.

Cutting back the line is as moronic as closing the cave. Trying to protect people from themselves.

Cave diving is for grown ups. Make grown up decisions.

[PfcAJ]

Really AJ? I rarely disagree with you but this is a strong statement. Personally I would object a whole lot more to the closure of the cave than to the line being cut back. I would think that you would as well.

I agree cave diving is for grown ups - 100%. Unfortunately, we live in a world where regardless of our acceptance of personal risk, public perception is and will continue to be an issue that has to be managed.

What public perception, exactly? Does the public know anything about lines in caves? Did the landowner ask for "something" to be done?

This stuff is pretty nuanced for the public.

The public really doesn't have anything to do with this decision. It's cave divers doing exactly the type of thing that cave divers ##### and moan about all the time.

If cutting lines back from the entrance at places like devils and orange grove is to stop ow divers from finding it and following it, the point of cutting this line back is to prevent the most certified divers the sport has from finding it. Maybe. Just maybe (and no slight against the recently deceased, believe me) we need to have more discussions about judgement and slow progression rather than trying to ginnie-fi Eagles Nest of all places.

In my opinion ginnie-fi-ing Eagles Nest makes a strong case that even the top folks in the sport don't have enough judgement to make good decisions for themselves. In a land of cave closures and apparently lawsuits that's not a good precident to set.

[Kelly Jessop]

What public perception, exactly? Does the public know anything about lines in caves? Did the landowner ask for "something" to be done?

This stuff is pretty nuanced for the public.

The public really doesn't have anything to do with this decision. It's cave divers doing exactly the type of thing that cave divers ##### and moan about all the time.

If cutting lines back from the entrance at places like devils and orange grove is to stop ow divers from finding it and following it, the point of cutting this line back is to prevent the most certified divers the sport has from finding it. Maybe. Just maybe (and no slight against the recently deceased, believe me) we need to have more discussions about judgement and slow progression rather than trying to ginnie-fi Eagles Nest of all places.

In my opinion ginnie-fi-ing Eagles Nest makes a strong case that even the top folks in the sport don't have enough judgement to make good decisions for themselves. In a land of cave closures and apparently lawsuits that's not a good precident to set.

Of course there is option C which would have everybody P and M ing- make Eagles Nest a guided system. Would stop the OW diver nuisance. Would assure experience levels would only access parts of the cave they are ready for-hence wouldn't have to have it cave nanny ready. Seems to decrease accidents versus open systems. I am not saying do this,but right now in the eyes of the locals this place is a public nuisance. If we can't do something, then it is left up to their knowledge base and good intentions-which you know where that will go.

[patpicos]

Of course there is option C which would have everybody P and M ing- make Eagles Nest a guided system. Would stop the OW diver nuisance. Would assure experience levels would only access parts of the cave they are ready for-hence wouldn't have to have it cave nanny ready. Seems to decrease accidents versus open systems. I am not saying do this,but right now in the eyes of the locals this place is a public nuisance. If we can't do something, then it is left up to their knowledge base and good intentions-which you know where that will go.

how would guiding be of any help when the site is readily accessible and tons of OW divers already visit.. *shrugs*

Who's gonna guide Draker on his 13 hour dives?