Gold line

[CHartmann]

I have been thinking a bit about the placement of gold lines lately. I understand that the idea was to prevent OW divers from seeing the line and thinking that it was okay to follow it into the cave. As cave diving becomes more and more popular though, there are sites that are almost never without a primary reel. Think of the eye at Ginnie. I have seen up to 6 lines run through there and when I am coming out with dual 108's and an AL 80 stage and an AL 40 O2 bottle, it becomes a serious entanglement hazard. Has there been any thought given to moving the gold line closer to OW (or at least to near the sign where the cave is bigger) to avoid the spider web effect on busy days?

What would the draw backs be of running the line all the way to open water? I am interested in your opinions on this topic.

[Brent]

I have been thinking a bit about the placement of gold lines lately. I understand that the idea was to prevent OW divers from seeing the line and thinking that it was okay to follow it into the cave. As cave diving becomes more and more popular though, there are sites that are almost never without a primary reel. Think of the eye at Ginnie. I have seen up to 6 lines run through there and when I am coming out with dual 108's and an AL 80 stage and an AL 40 O2 bottle, it becomes a serious entanglement hazard. Has there been any thought given to moving the gold line closer to OW (or at least to near the sign where the cave is bigger) to avoid the spider web effect on busy days?

What would the draw backs be of running the line all the way to open water? I am interested in your opinions on this topic.

Let me share some history of the Ginnie gold line with you. Back in the day, the gold line started at the Keyhole and I'm told it was actually closer to the Hill 400 at one time but that was a long long time ago. I was on the ( now defunct ) line committee back in the late 90's and by majority vote, and the owners approval, the line was moved to it's present position. Other than running a line down the Eye Corridor, no changes have been made to the Gold line in well over a decade so now to your question???
At Ginnie, it's always going to be a "crap shoot" regarding OW and even Cavern divers when it comes to the placement, ie, the start of the Gold line. The present location, just around the bend, hopefully keeps the majority of recreational divers from swimming into the cave. Who knows what would happen if the line started at the bottom of the chimney or up by the log. As for the congestion, wish I had an answer. You need to remember what our standards call for regarding the placement of the primary line. Granted, in the old days, you might see two or three reels at best on a typical Saturday. Those days are long gone, as you know. Peacock, main spring, solved the problem but not letting OW divers dive at that location. That will never happen at Ginnie!!
So, a lot of "rambling" and no solution to your question. Wish I had a solution but no such luck! Actually I do have a solution. Get there very early or very late!!!

[FW]

Let me share some history of the Ginnie gold line with you. Back in the day, the gold line started at the Keyhole and I'm told it was actually closer to the Hill 400 at one time but that was a long long time ago...

Not THAT long ago. The reason the Dive Rite red reel holds 400' of line was to get to the start of the main line (not gold at the time). Before the line committee, the start of the main line tended to get moved every couple of weeks. One group wanted to keep it at hill 400 and another group wanted it at the Keyhole.

[Kelly Jessop]

Before the line committee, the start of the main line tended to get moved every couple of weeks. One group wanted to keep it at hill 400 and another group wanted it at the Keyhole.

Line placement has had a contentious past. There was a battle over the placement of some line in Ginnie a number of years ago, with each party undoing the other person's previous placement. It came to blows in the Devil's parking lot with a fist fight that resulted in the sheriff being called. Same thing with the placement of the main line at P1. One party wanted it the original position at the sign, the other in open water. A battle ensued and eventually it put a couple divers at risk who were doing the grand traverse, and they complained to Tallahassee. The park faced closure from diving until the problem could be resolved.

As cave diving becomes more and more popular

Actually data shows it hasn't grown that much as far as active participants at the present,but the biggest boom in popularity (and active population size) was the 90s. We had the same problem of many lines going to main line,but just a longer distance back.

[Diverlee]

Maybe another solution to the spider webs would be better placements. I'm not the best at running a line but I do try to run it so it doesn't get in everyone's way. Like along the sides? Instructors maybe reinforce this?


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[tbone1004]

only helps those currently being trained not the ones that are already finished unfortunately. Compound that with the fact that there are only so many ways to put lines in each of these passages due to limited tie off's. I'm all for bringing the line out farther in caves that have heavy traffic and limited places to run the lines, but also get the sad but true reality of the liability associated with it

[Richie]

Running a primary. That just gets in the way of my penetration and consumes all that precious gas at the beginning of the dive and uses up all that extra time at the beginning especially in 30' of water with cave filled doubles on the back and possibly 2 stage bottles. - Sarcasm intended.

[CHartmann]

What are the legal implications for the property owner if a diver follows a gold line into a cave and dies vs. following a primary reel into a cave and dies? Especially if there are signs posted and waivers signed. How would this litigation play out?

I know there are a few people here that are well acquainted with the legal system surrounding this issue in one way or another. I would like to hear your input.

[rddvet]

What are the legal implications for the property owner if a diver follows a gold line into a cave and dies vs. following a primary reel into a cave and dies? Especially if there are signs posted and waivers signed. How would this litigation play out?

I know there are a few people here that are well acquainted with the legal system surrounding this issue in one way or another. I would like to hear your input.

Lines are tied to tree limbs in France and I don't think anybody's been sued. But it's also a very different society and legal system

[FW]

...But it's also a very different society and legal system

Yes, and there are No Trespassing signs at a lot of French caves. It is my understanding that if there is a sign there, the landowner won't get sued, unlike in the US :-(