The "What If" Game . .

[aw]

Have you made a firm decision for yourself how you would respond in each of these situations?

1) You've just completed a 70 minute dive in Little River and have 20 minutes of deco to do. Your buddy suddenly goes unconscious (the reason at that point is unknown). And you have no other people in water or on surface to help. What do you do?

2) You've just done a mix dive to 280 ft and have another 50 minutes of deco to do and the same situation happens. Now the risks are even greater that you will be severely injured if you abort deco. What would you do?

What are the prevailing thoughts? I know the degree of personal risk one accepts is a personal one when choosing to help another, but would anyone be willing to offer thoughts on the decisions they've made? Sorry if there are other similar-type posts.

[Cave Ranger]

I guess that would depend on how good a friends we were.
In the Little River scenario I would make every effort to get my buddy to the surface while compressing his/her chest on ascent to hopefully reduce the risk of Embolism. Once on the surface I would get my Cell Phone out of my vehicle and call 911. I would check for breathing and a pulse. If they were not breathing yet had a weak pulse I would open the airway and give 2 quick rescue breaths. Perhaps inhaling from my Deco bottle prior to the rescue breaths would be beneficial for both of us. After a few more rescue breaths I would put my buddy in the standard "Recovery Position" Then I would return to the water for my deco commitment and wring my hands the entire time.
This seems plausable since it should take several minutes for the Nitrogen bubbles to come out of solution and bend you like Mr. Fantastic. That's a risk I would be willing to take for this scenario.

As for the other scenario........I've never been deeper than 190 feet but IMHO, once you exceed a certain depth and deco commitment there should be no expectation of rescue. Everyone I dive with understands that. What good does it do to send two bodies to the Morgue?

Knock on wood but this sort of thing has never happened to me. There are probably better answers I could have given and I have no doubt that some of you will rip me a new kiester over this but the question was asked and those are my answers. Now tell me why I'm wrong.

I guess that would depend on how good a friends we were.

Absolutely. I've made about 350 cave dives with people I like, but I made about 70 with someone I loved. In the former case, you've got to go up in the first scenario but hang in the second. In the latter case, I don't see how anybody could not go up.

Russell

[DR2K]

Chest compressions above or under water??? It is a hard personal decision, but there is no room for heroes in a life or death situation. In stress and rescue we were taught to save ourselves first then help the others. The goal is to minimize the body bags.

Take care and safe diving.

ED

[Cave Ranger]

I was refering to chest compression in the sense of preventing Lung expansion on ascent. I didn't mean CPR.
Being a "Hero" would be the last thing on my mind.........I don't think it would even cross my mind during this or any other scenario. I took no offense though Ed. Just clarifying.

[stickydeco]

What are the prevailing thoughts?

Inflate their BC's and send them on to the top. Complete Deco, recalculate thirds and continue diving.

[Alan Garrett]

Hmm. Tough question. For me it boils down to this, "Who do I love most, me or the person I'm diving with?". Actually that's not completely true either. Many times I have put myself in harm's way to help people I didn't even know. Sometimes that meant putting myself between them and pissed animals, bad guys with guns, buildings on fire, and crap like that. Why? I don't have a clue. I wish I had an answer. I guess I just really like people. If you're diving with me and you get into trouble, you'll probably end up on the surface if I have the gas to get you there. I'll deal with whatever happens after that later, if I can. If not, I'll leave this world with no regrets. And no, I don't expect anyone else to do likewise if I screw the pooch. I suppose that makes me impulsive and maybe even a little stupid. You'll have to draw your own conclusions on that one. We are who we are, and I have found that most of the time in a real emergency it's your "gut", not your brain, that determines how you handle yourself, at least in the first few moments. Stuff like that lets you get to know yourself really well. -Alan

[DeWayne]

Hmm. Tough question. For me it boils down to this, "Who do I love most, me or the person I'm diving with?". Actually that's not completely true either. Many times I have put myself in harm's way to help people I didn't even know. Sometimes that meant putting myself between them and pissed animals, bad guys with guns, buildings on fire, and crap like that. Why? I don't have a clue. I wish I had an answer. I guess I just really like people. If you're diving with me and you get into trouble, you'll probably end up on the surface if I have the gas to get you there. I'll deal with whatever happens after that later, if I can. If not, I'll leave this world with no regrets. And no, I don't expect anyone else to do likewise if I screw the pooch. I suppose that makes me impulsive and maybe even a little stupid. You'll have to draw your own conclusions on that one. We are who we are, and I have found that most of the time in a real emergency it's your "gut", not your brain, that determines how you handle yourself, at least in the first few moments. Stuff like that lets you get to know yourself really well. -Alan

Been there done that as well Alan, so don't feel all alone in this world. This is one of the reasons I enjoy diving solo. The one certainty in life is we can not be sure how we will react until the caca is already flying.

[aw]

As I think about the scenarios, perhaps we have to accept the premise of cave diving when doing deco too - that problems have to be resolved underwater. Since deco is a virtual overhead, we could make an argument for this. With that in mind, would it be plausible to keep the victim with you through the rest of the deco while keeping a reg in his mouth, purging it from time to time to push gas into his lungs?

I don't know. Just offering an alternative idea. If you did this, you'd have to keep in mind the reason for his unconsciousness is unknown right now. If he just switched tanks, the new tank could be filled with pure helium or something (i.e. JB incident, or eagle's nest incident). So if you kept him with you with a reg in his mouth, you might want to use a known gas source. Then attempt CPR, etc once on the surface.

Dunno.

[Dave Lizdas]

the 280' dive is so far beyond what Im doing now, all I'm thinking is the LR scenario:

you stated unconcious; does this mean not breathing? This may effect my decision; if my buddy was unresponsive, unconcious, AND BREATHING, then I'd consider staying down a little longer (and keep the reg in their mouth.) I'd also have the time to bring them up nice and slow and safe. I'd still end up blowing off a lot of that deco, but at least I could give us a few minutes coming up.

If they were NOT breathing I would have to get them out of the water as fast as possible. I'd totally blow off 20 min of deco. I would want that O2 bottle on the surface, better not forget that. Now for getting a diver in backmount doubles in a drysuit to the surface without busting their lungs. In rescue class we did that technique where you "ride" an unresponsive diver up from the bottom by staying negative and using their wing to control us both, working their inflator with one hand and holding the reg in their mouth with the other. Lets say its worse, we are at 70 feet. I've done this from 30 feet, not 70, where their suit would overinflate and rocket us both up. Might have to use my knife to cut a hole in their suit first. But if I'm doing all that, although I may have great control over our position, I can't reach their chest to punch out the overexpanding gas in their lungs.

Punching their chest, does that even work?

What is the best way to force gas out of a diver's lungs while ascending? They have tanks; you cant grip them from behind like the Heimlich Maneuver. You would have to grab their harness from the front, with both hands around their D-rings, and knee them in the diaphragm. And you'd have to do that every ten feet. And if you slip and let them go they rocket to the surface.

But, just thinking now, If they are not breathing, they dont need tanks. do you cut their harness off, discard their tanks, put your long hose in their mouth (!) and carry them up beneath you? you would be free to do something like the Heimlich Maneuver on the way up to force out gas from their lungs. If they wake up in the water without tanks they may be pissed...

so what do you think, what's the best way to bring someone up from depth without busting their lungs?