Dynamic Compaction in Florida

[Cindy]

I have done some soul searching over this subject the last few days. I presented a cave location to prevent damage to that cave and potential damage that building over that cave could have on the environment and the City of Alachua, period. Since that time others have joined in the effort to try to assure the cave is protected and that any problems are delt with before they happen for once. We have Cave Divers, Housewifes, Geologists, Environmental Experts, Phd Biologists, DEP springs experts, Hydrologists, local public leaders (including ones from Alachua) and many others who have looked at the situation and agree it's a problem. These people are well reputed and very well spoken. They didn't get into this because they thought I was making all this up to mess up the City of Alachua or getting my kicks off trashing WalMart. They looked at what was presented and formed their own independent insights on what was happening and are acting on the behalf of the cave and the environment. The positive response has been overwhelming and supportive from the cave diving community. The communtiy in general has been gratefull for the information provided. For once Thankfully/Hopefully we may actually prevent something from happening that can be harmfull. It's way past the issue of what store is building on the site. Now not only are people looking at what can be done for a cave for once, they are also looking at the exsisting problems. I see this as a win win for any City and know what happens here will turn out well for all involved. This will be my last post on this matter. I will post announcements of any further meetings etc. I want to thank all of you who have supported this effort and me personally through what are some very trying times. I see this as having a postive outcome and the reason that will happen is because of people involved and from the efforts of many of the divers on this forum. Thanks again, Cindy Butler

[Ken Hill]

I tend to agree with Brian's post that it isn't worth the effort to answer some of the really negative posts. However, there may be a battle to be fought because there is a lot of money and effort at stake on the part of the developer of the parcels in question. Suppose they stick their toe in the water to see how cave divers really feel? I wouldn't want them to do a Google search and think that the extra-terrestrial posting here has the voice of the cave community. Therefore, regardless of what some people think about the ramifications of our actions "viz a viz" Alachua County vs. Cave Divers, efforts need to be made to ensure the cave is safe.

Alachua County is one of the most progressive counties in the state. We have the high ground on a moral issue ie: the potential for destruction of a cave. We are taking a positive approach by making engineering suggestions for the developer to use caution not only because destruction of a cave in Florida is a criminal offense but water is an asset belonging to all the people of the state. We are on the right side of the demographics because 35% of Alachua County residents have four or more years of college and express deep concerns about the environment.

As long as we remain focused, these factors will put us on the right side of the appointed and elected officials because that's the way the bureaucracy works on this planet.

Regards /Ken

[Walter Pickel]

35% of Alachua County residents have four or more years of college and express deep concerns about the environment.

What the hell does that mean?

[brianstclair]

It means they weren't all smart enough to finish in just four years

Brian

[Ken Hill]

35% of Alachua County residents have four or more years of college and express deep concerns about the environment.

What the hell does that mean?

It means that politicians see Alachua County residents/voters as those that tend to side on conservation issues.

More importantly, yesterdays intervention by Florida's Attorney General supporting the efforts to save Wakulla from cave and water damage from above on property owned by others should be a wake up call to politicians and bureaucrats involved in the commercial permitting process.
As pointed out by Kelly and Cindy it may have impact on the permits sought that may affect Cathedral.

/Ken

[Genesis]

Some of you folks are pretty funny.... and your shift in statements have been too.

Reasonable mitigation - that is, preventing damage - is just that - reasonable. I've supported that from the get-go back in October when this first became a known issue in the community.

But some have done much more than that. They have, effectively, pushed a position that amounts to a ban on this development - any development - of this parcel.

That is a taking of the land folks. It is un-American. You cannot take a person's private property and suddenly deem it "protected" without compensation. This isn't a matter of what you think, I think, or whether it "feels good" or not. It is a matter of the US Constitution.

Now you CAN press for such measures, BUT if you succeed there will be major ramifications for the government organs involved, as they must pay the landowner for the diminuation of his value. Again, this is not a matter of what you'd like; its a matter of what the law IS.

The situation with Wakulla is entirely different. There you have a sprayfield which is ALSO being used by government. They'd have to "pay themselves", effectively, for that dimuation. And, for the record, I'm in favor of stopping that pollution source.

It seems that either some of the posters here are being dishonest - that is, they're raising hell publically to try to get others to write letters with the intent of stopping all development on this parcel - but they won't take that position themselves - or they're talking out both sides of their mouths. One has to wonder if plausible deniability is at play here.

I would hope not - but perhaps - just perhaps - an FOIA to see exactly what sort of comments have been filed needs to go in - and who's names are on them.

[Rich]

http://highspringsherald.com/article...ews/news09.txt

Safe diving,

Rich

[Genesis]

http://highspringsherald.com/articles/2006/03/30/news/news09.txt

Safe diving,

Rich

That sort of concern - and scrutiny - is perfectly fine. In fact, I like it. Runoff issues are the one item I've been able to identify as being "real" - and worthy of concern.

As an aside Rich, "Welcome to the Machine" - and when the gasbag is done, you can dive with me on that "legally" - since I will indeed have met all the requirements for certification on the unit as determined by its manufacturer - and that's the industry standard....

[bmwcaves]

I would hope not - but perhaps - just perhaps - an FOIA to see exactly what sort of comments have been filed needs to go in - and who's names are on them.

Oh my GOD.....NO !!!!

Not the dreaded FOIA threat !!!!!
Please we beg of you, don't go an expose us for who we really are.
I don't know how I could take it if people knew I had made a comment in favor of protecting a spring, a water source, a cave or a fragile ecosystem.....

We'd never be able to fool anyone again !!!!!!!!!!

"Trembling in my fins"


Brian

[Cindy]

That's a good one Brian! Guess my secrets out! Darn. Cindy