you gotta be kidding me...

[MDiver429]

To be a padi cavern instructor you have to be a full cave diver

[PsychDiver]

I know nothing about instructing; not an instructor at any level of anything dive related. I have heard, "an instructor can take the student on dives one level above their training", or something to that effect. Presumably this is because if you're an OW certified diver taking Cavern you have to go in the Cavern zone. My Cavern and Intro instructor (who I believe is no longer active, or even cave diving to my knowledge; at least i haven't seen him in a couple of years -- not a 'big name') took me to Pothole in Peacock and into the Lips at Ginnie during my Cavern training, which I did in OW gear (he was in full cave gear), turning on 1/6ths of my AL80, just to take a peek (figured it was kind of like the heroin dealer giving the newcomer a taste). Worked for me; I took Intro from him (full from someone else), and have been cave diving ever since. Don't know how common this is, but it does happen. I didn't know any better, so don't blame me...

[Jax]

As I originally stated even PADI requires you to be in Full cave gear. I am talking about the person you are taking on the dive. Instructor always has to be in full cave gear. It sounds like in this situation the "instructor" was taking the student on an intro level dive. While the instructor is required to be in full cave gear the student at minimum needs to be in intro level gear which could be a single tank with a H valve. Understand what I'm saying? Sorry if there was confusion.

Thank you - the bolded part was that to which I am referring. I was given to understand that you could take Cavern, and dive Cavern, in the H-valve, but all classes beyond cavern must be in full cave gear.

[tbone1004]

you should have been in at least intro gear. The instructor taking you on those dives isn't a problem as long as he is certified to teach at that level, but you need to at least be in an H-valve with all of the requisite equipment

[Jim Wyatt]

NSS-CDS standards allow a Full Cave Instructor to guide one level up. For instance a guided dive can be done with a cavern diver out to Pothole and back *IF* the cavern diver is in at least intro to cave gear, such as a single tank with an H-Valve or some other configuration of double tanks. The instructor must also be in full cave gear.

Taking a cavern diver on a guided dive to Pothole in cavern gear is a standards violation. The instructor must be in full cave gear and the person being guided must be in some configuration such as an H-valve, backmounted doubles, or sidemounted doubles.

Taking a cavern diver ANYWHERE past the daylight zone unless the person being guided is with an H-valve or some sort of doubles configuration is a standards violation.

Any NSS-CDS instructor who is reported as having done this will be suspended immediately pending the outcome of a formal investigation.

[FW]

... I have heard, "an instructor can take the student on dives one level above their training"...

Only if the instructor is qualified to teach at the one level up. A cavern instructor can't take a student one level up from cavern, only one level up from OW. An instructor in OW gear shouldn't be taking a student anywhere other than OW.

[MDiver429]

Thank you - the bolded part was that to which I am referring. I was given to understand that you could take Cavern, and dive Cavern, in the H-valve, but all classes beyond cavern must be in full cave gear.

Gotcha. Cavern is considered recreational and can be done in a single tank. Agencies (not sure if all of them but many) do allow intro in an h valve configuration.

[Cave_diver_13]

IMHO, don't take anybody past the cavern zone who is not properly trained (or in training for intro-full cave) and equipped to go into the cave zone. Regardless of whether or not they are in doubles, SM, H valve, Y valve or whatever. We all know how easy it is for things to get FUBAR in the cave.

And as per TDI and PADI standards, the instructor teaching the cavern course MUST be in full cave gear.

[DMoore]

A cavern instructor taking a cavern student beyond the cavern zone while wearing OW gear. Awesome...

[navycaver]

cmint -- You need to file a written QA report with PADI. We talk about policing ourselves and this is one way to do it.
The PADI e-mail address is: [email protected]

I would also like the name of the instructor sent to me in a PM so we at the NSS-CDS can make note. This is one way we know who we do not want as instructors in our ranks.

Cmint I agree 100% please contact PADI.

PADI standards do require full Cave Gear for the instructor and standards require to stay in the view as visible light at the exit.

Obviously the lips in no way meet this Standard.