you gotta be kidding me...

[Kelly Jessop]

It has been reported. If anyone wants a reason, here, here's the reason that I feel it's the right thing to do.

Attachment 14978

Well said.

[Benderr]

I believe in this case the photos can be covered under fair use without need for permission (http://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/c...online-images/)

Fair use is in place for the greater good, to allow copyrighted works to be used without permission for the benefit of the public

Why are you using the image? If it is “…for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research…” you’re on the right track.


I'm sure though that if the creators asked for it to be taken down/removed Draker or the mods would be happy to do so.

Is it used for the greater good, or is it used to ridicule someone they don't like? Either way, the creator bothered to include a watermark, and is a fellow diver. Common courtesy would suggest asking the artist for permission before using their work in the way it was used here.

[navycaver]

even if it was an attempt to shame the instructor, shouldn't you be called out for doing stupid and dangerous activities that are jeopardizing the safety of the students and are in direct violation of the standards that you agree to teach to every year when you renew your instructor status? Whether he was trying to shame the instructor, or just trying to say to the rest of us "wake up, don't be a moron and do this!", it doesn't matter. The instructors name wasn't posted, good, it shouldn't be. The instructor was reported, he better have been reported to the agencies, and hopefully reported to the property owner as well.

Fine, but incidents like this should shame us all out of whatever bit of complacency we are guilty of. Whatever that stems from, not changing cells in analyzers on time, expediting pre dive checks or briefings, diving with a small leak in a HP hose, every one of us have done stupid things like that, and we all know better. Often times threads will come up here on "I did some stupid things, this is what I learned, thank God I'm alive, and don't repeat my idiotic mistake please". This is an exaggerated incident where the instructor went beyond minor complacency into full out negligence and that has to be called out and made aware to the community, hopefully to prevent us from doing something equally as stupid. Simple as that in my mind.

I agree well put.


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[navycaver]

It has been reported. If anyone wants a reason, here, here's the reason that I feel it's the right thing to do.

Attachment 14978

Agree 100%.



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[JohnAd]

I am very careful about using pictures without permission after an incident with a dive shop for which i used to work. The owner of the shop was an avid photographer with literally thousands of pictures of fish on file. When the employee who maintained the web site decided to post a picture of a fish on one of the pages, she did not go to those files but instead pulled one that was on display on the Internet, one she got using google images. Incredibly, the owner of the photo found it, and it cost the shop thousands.

I also used to design online education curricula, and I created a full year Marine Biology course by putting a commercial Marine Biology textbook online. The textbook owner (PADI, believe it or not) gave full permission and provided me with the MS Word files for all the chapters. They also gave me permission to use all the artwork (diagrams, etc.). They could not, however, give me permission to use any of the photographs. I had to replace them all on my own, and that was sheer Hell. I had to find equivalent photographs in the first place, and then I had to find out the ownership to make sure I could use it in a school curriculum. It is nowhere near as easy as it sounds--permission statements are hard to find, and they usually come with caveats. Even Wikipedia pictures are not foolproof.

As for fair use and the typical classroom exclusion, it does not apply to online publication of curriculum. You are not allowed to do online what you can do in a classroom. That goes beyond the classroom as well--the rules for online use are different from the rules for in person use.

How does this apply in these cases? I don't know, but I would sure want to find out before taking a risk.

[Kelly Jessop]

Kelly maybe because they show potentially dangerous acts? Sub optimal gear set up can lead to fatalities, cave damage and accidents. Maybe they need more posts of how not to dive so people know how to dive. God knows I had my issues starting out. I wear my scars with pride though because I learned some hard lessons. I might have been upset with the people at the moment but now looking back on things I am forever grateful that people had enough guts to speak up and tell me what I was doing wrong and what I could do to make it better. I hold no ill will and I certainly hope people will still call me out if I'm doing something wrong. It's how we learn. Hell I will be the first to call myself out if I know I look like crap or am doing something wrong.

I hear you Tracy. I agree everyone deserves mentoring,because once you exit class the learning is continuing. Sometimes some people have a steeper slope than others,but we all deserve the same chance to learn, and develop proficiency.

The question can be asked does public shaming really help the situation? Public shaming on the internet has been around for awhile,for instance:
http://www.bentleytech.com/cave/hfs/index.html
http://www.bentleytech.com/cave/stroke/index.html
http://www.bentleytech.com/cave/boat/index.html (click on picture to launch)
At this era there was the greatest divide and huge animosity directed at the WKPP and DIR. Did their message have value-yes. Was the WKPP doing unbelievable exploration-yes. But, nobody cared because their negative PR exceeded the tolerance of most people.

The pity is that you have scars,because nobody needed to call you out on this forum,but quietly talked to you privately, and helped remedy the problem. I realize it is utopian to use the Rodney King, "can't we all get along",because in 40+ years we haven't been able to,but a PM can probably serve better in some cases, n'est ce pas?

[shellmoundal]

"It's how we learn. Hell I will be the first to call myself out if I know I look like crap or am doing something wrong."

"I hear you Tracy. I agree everyone deserves mentoring,because once you exit class the learning is continuing. Sometimes some people have a steeper slope than others,but we all deserve the same chance to learn, and develop proficiency. "


You can't mentor a person who will not listen. When you try and make a suggestion the person always has an excuse for why he did what he did. At some point we just pack up our gear and move on to a person who is serious about his diving.

[Daedalus]

The question can be asked does public shaming really help the situation?

It would be interesting to see a line graphs of volume of public shaming vs. proliferation of poor diving practices. It seems like there was a peak of "name and shame" decades ago, and a valley thereafter.

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[Kelly Jessop]

It would be interesting to see a line graphs of volume of public shaming vs. proliferation of poor diving practices.

Those two variables may be mutually exclusive, or correlation coefficient of 0.

[floridabob]

Guilt = Good, Shame = Bad | Psychology Today
https://www.psychologytoday.com/...i...good-shame-bad
Psychology Today
Jan 6, 2014 - Shame neither encourages nor motivates positive behavior change. ... And she calls healthy shame what it actually is, which is guilt. ... In short, guilt is potentially a very healthy feeling, and shame is not.