you gotta be kidding me...

[cmint]

OK,

I've bent my share of rules in my day. I am pretty much "let people do whatever they want and live with the results of their actions" but I saw something at Ginnie where an instructor was putting a students life in danger.

I was coming out of the keyhole and ran into an open water diver. Single tank, split fins, no H valve. Definitely an open water diver. His buddy was in sidemount. They were between the lips and the keyhole.

My first reaction was, "he saw the sign, darwin will sort it out, I've got deco to do."

When we got done with deco I ran into the pair of divers out of the water. It was then that I realized I knew one of them. One, the one in open water gear, was a padi cavern instructor. The one in sidemount was his cavern student. The instructor said he just didn't feel like "digging out the H valve"

This bothers me for two reasons.

One, he was teaching a student that being in the cave is OK with just a single tank and no redundancy.

The other is, and please correct me if I'm wrong, if he is not a cave instructor he should not have a cavern student in the cave zone at all.

I know this guy, and I know he will read this. I dove with him about a month ago. He is, I'm sure, a very good open water diver, but he is not a great cave diver. He told me it had been a while since he dove cave so he was a bit rusty. I'll be honest, there were a couple of times when he was diving with us where he got confused and we had to show him the way out. (headed down July spring because he was navigating by flow)

I know he will be mad at me when he reads this, that's ok. I'd rather be honest than liked. I have to say that...

dude, you are a very nice person, but your skills are not honed to the point that you should be teaching cavern students.

You know who you are.

[Jack Hammer]

Awesome*...

*code for not really awesome.

- Jeff

[kensuf]

I'm sorry to tell you this, but if you saw this first hand, you need to call PADI and IANTD and report him. He is a cavern instructor for both.

You should also notify NAUI, even though he is not a NAUI cavern instructor.

[cmint]

I have a general question, Ken. Do I remember reading somewhere in some teaching standards that a person teaching a cavern class is required to do so in full cave gear, even in the cavern? or does that vary from agency to agency? I know I remember reading it somewhere and thinking "that makes sense, in case a student takes off into the cave the instructor will need to go look for them"

[kensuf]

I can not speak for PADI, as I do not have their standards. But for the agencies I am an instructor with, yes. Regardless, no agency will let you take a cavern student 200' back in a cave.

[Jim Wyatt]

cmint -- You need to file a written QA report with PADI. We talk about policing ourselves and this is one way to do it.
The PADI e-mail address is: linda.vanvelsan@padi.com

I would also like the name of the instructor sent to me in a PM so we at the NSS-CDS can make note. This is one way we know who we do not want as instructors in our ranks.

[MDiver429]

PADI cavern does require you to be in full cave gear when teaching cavern. Also unless you can teach intro you are not allowed to take your students past the cavern zone. If you can teach intro and the student completes cavern and you want to take them on an intro dive they need appropriate gear whether it be h valve or doubles. You can not take them on an intro dive in their single din or yoke valve setup.

[Jax]

PADI cavern does require you to be in full cave gear when teaching cavern. Also unless you can teach intro you are not allowed to take your students past the cavern zone. If you can teach intro and the student completes cavern and you want to take them on an intro dive they need appropriate gear whether it be h valve or doubles. You can not take them on an intro dive in their single din or yoke valve setup.

Someone allows Intro in less than full cave gear?????

[Foxmeyer]

From the PADI Cavern Instructor Manual of required equipment:

B. Instructor equipment
1. All required student equipment, plus:
a. Y valve or double-cylinders with dual-valve manifold or
separate K valves
b. Three battery-powered lights
c. Primary reel and personal safety reel

At the present time, the prevailing standard of practice is for Cavern Diver
Specialty Instructors to conduct the course while wearing Full Cave equipment.
This, of course, is only recommended if the instructor has Full Cave
certification and is a regulation that is enforced at many sites.

[MDiver429]

Someone allows Intro in less than full cave gear?????

As I originally stated even PADI requires you to be in Full cave gear. I am talking about the person you are taking on the dive. Instructor always has to be in full cave gear. It sounds like in this situation the "instructor" was taking the student on an intro level dive. While the instructor is required to be in full cave gear the student at minimum needs to be in intro level gear which could be a single tank with a H valve. Understand what I'm saying? Sorry if there was confusion.