New GUE Project in Mallorca?

[gianaameri]

Gianaameri: Most importantly I would not jump into any conclusion before I had the facts straight, and I wouldn't expect to get them from a web forum (even if it was as esteemed as CDF ). Which is why I refraine myself from commenting anything but in general. Usually there's a clause that allows the authorities to give permits past all other regulation, if they feel a project is for the general good. Permits can often also be issued on the grounds, that the authorities want more information, before they can establish their criteria. This is quite usual; to be able to collect data, without having to go through the whole permitting process. Kannattaa tutkia, ennen kuin alkaa hutkia, an excellent Finnish saying which basically means it's good to do your research, before dealing punches left and right, holds especially true working with cases, where an official conduct is only in the making. This is because there's usually always a clause, which will allow exceptions, when the authorities feel it serves greater good. It's quite humane to feel there must be a misconduct somewhere, because one feels maltreated and disappointed. However that often is not the case.

bent: Fully realizing you're comment directed at my post was only intended to be insulting, I gladly admit I'm always, despite their affiliation, a fangal of hard working professionals, who do high quality work for greater good. Even more so, if the individuals have a generous, helpful and friendly attitude towards a fellow man.

This is the reason I am seeking the protocol number of the supposed authorization to GUE by Direccion...

If there is a lawful authorization, great.

I am sure that there are other deserving divers who on the same basis and grounds and procedure (whatever this may be) will be able to benefit politely, using lawyers and other professionals, and without creating any unnecessary fuss (certainly not in anybody's interest) with the Direccion...

There is no basis to keep the Protocol number of the supposed authorization by Direccion... secret, is there?

[Nitrogenius]

Can you please cut the "fanboy" calling and the swearing? It is beginning to get annoying.

While I understand your frustration, you're clearly barking at the wrong tree. As Grimm said, the divers apparently asked for and received proper permits, which is awesome for them.

All the gripes we have with the authorities treating us differently and with all the other groups not caring about the rules (e.g. the German agencies that do cave training on Mallorca, the Russian divers that dive it by paying money to the right people) - all that has nothing to do with GUE or, god forbid, "DIR".

I fully agree with you here Oliver..
Nevertheless though, if folks on the project were a bit more transparent as to the permit it would leave no room for speculation


Also from that perspective Grimms response is somewhat disappointing, but everybody makes their own decisions.
Without transparency the noise will only continue and we will see where this leads..
Time will tell


But then there is the saying, no such thing like bad publicity

[scubainchicago]

Did anyone see day two's pictures from the project, SPECTACULAR! It's good to see that some very talented people were able to document a wonderful place. Permission couldn't have been granted to a more sincere group of divers who care about conservation. Keep up the good work!

[Nitrogenius]

Did anyone see day two's pictures from the project, SPECTACULAR! It's good to see that some very talented people were able to document a wonderful place. Permission couldn't have been granted to a more sincere group of divers who care about conservation. Keep up the good work!

Yes I have seen it. Looks amazing. Great work for sure..


Also in that regards, Gian, I don't think it is the right thing to constantly state that they are "only fundiving" there. I don't think there is any facts supporting this.
Apparently great videography and picture work is going on and such might be the basis of the permit, the latter also I think is not right to imply that such permit would not exist.
I would surely believe they have a permit.
At the same time I still think it would be helpful being more transparent about it.


But the speculations and allegations surely do not help KECPs reputation and cause..
And I would hate to see some of our "big names" leaving the group as a result of this..
Just some perspective

[bent]

Apparently great videography and picture work is going on and such might be the basis of the permit, the latter also I think is not right to imply that such permit would not exist.
I would surely believe they have a permit.

Pictures and videos of these cave aren't going to be the basis of anything. Countless pictures have been taken there. These cave have been on spanish TV a bunch of times and there are tons of pictures online.
People from Grup Nord are the once who have actually done scientific work there and they have actually released papers about their work including tons of picture and great video. It was just not advertised on facebook.

[patpicos]

slawek paco had a bunch of footage of Mallorca...not sure how recent...but was awesome

[gianaameri]

I would surely believe they have a permit.

On this point, I know no one has a License from the Direccion... the issuance of Licenses from the Direccion are on hold pending the writing of the protocols and criterias.

The same is confirmed by KECP lawyer.

I will add, that any License (all Licenses pertaining to the environment and not just caves) approved or denied is sent by the Direccion... to the local press and the press is very attentive on the subject.

Absolutely, no Licenses issued by the Direccion and everything on hold.

Like it or not, this is the situation.

[Nitrogenius]

Pictures and videos of these cave aren't going to be the basis of anything. Countless pictures have been taken there. These cave have been on spanish TV a bunch of times and there are tons of pictures online.
People from Grup Nord are the once who have actually done scientific work there and they have actually released papers about their work including tons of picture and great video. It was just not advertised on facebook.

How are you to tell that the pictures and videos is not going to be the basis of anything?
We simply don't know at this point, so everything around that is speculation and surely does not help the cause of our group, so I am in favour of stopping doing so.
There a plenty of good reasons not to publish too much detail about a project while it is going on..
And all this speculation and finger pointing at the guys doing this is really sounding as butthurt and nothing else


I actually have to admit that some of the tone here drives me thinking of leaving the group as well..

[gianaameri]

I actually have to admit that some of the tone here drives me thinking of leaving the group as well..

Please go.

[bent]

slawek paco had a bunch of footage of Mallorca...not sure how recent...but was awesome

Sadly, yes. After people started posting stuff it got busier. Before 2012 or so, diving there was great.