New GUE Project in Mallorca?

[Jack Hammer]

I get that that. I know what a project is, but what makes it a GUE project? Just documenting could be anything though.

The thing is: I'm not allowed to dive there anymore because I can't get permission to dive these days, which really sucks.
So, if I sign up for a GUE membership and get a few other people, could I also do a 'GUE project'? I assume that's what got them the permission and I want one too. Who get's to start a GUE project.

Typically GUE divers

Sent via

[bent]

Typically GUE divers

Sent via

Huh?

[T. Bix]

The "Scuba Boss"..... Sorry but that term cracks me up.

[Steve Clark]

As I understand it, a GUE project is a group of GUE divers doing something organised, with a purpose. Access happens because motivated people get organised and negotiate with the appropriate stakeholder. It's normally a two-way thing and may take years of work behind the scenes. Eventually, a relationship is established and divers work hard to document (or do some other task) for the reward of diving some special places. Eg in Lipari, Italy, GUE divers are doing archeological work - 30mins @ 120m/400ft in the sea, largely self-funded. In return they get to dive a 2000year old protected and undisturbed shipwreck.

I know nothing about Majorca, but I doubt there's any magic GUE pass that's made it happen. Just ask whoever is leading it up (JP?) - I'm sure they'll help out.

If you want to join a project, I've found the majority of GUE folks are very welcoming if you are prepared to work with the principles. I dived support at Wakulla and Sullivan with only a few dozen C2/full cave dives, because I understood the system and could do something useful without compromising team safety.

As for side mount, we use it on our project at St Georges in France. Not for small passage, but for carrying in stream-way beyond sumps. Just like we use a van to move tanks and a BBQ for steak. Tool for the job. Standardisation works great until the benefits of something different out-weighs it for a particular circumstance.

With creative requests, interesting things can happen. We approached an instrumentation manufacturer in the UK and they lent us a $100,000 multiple sensor water sampler for a few weeks for free. We provided them with some images of it strapped to a scooter deep in a cave. Works for both of us.

[Nitrogenius]

Access happens because motivated people get organised and negotiate with the appropriate stakeholder.

Well that is actually the point here and indeed interesting about this.
Mallorca has restricted access to the protected caves (of which Vallgonera is one of them). There is only one group (FBE) who has an authorization permit granted to access and dive those caves. It is not GUE.
Some divers have formed a group (KECP) and filed an application with the relevant authorities (so the real appropriate stakeholder) app. 1,5 years ago (most divers of the group being present here).
So far there had not been any application recorded prior to KECPs application other than FBEs (which had been granted fastly and without issues - FBE is a local group - go figure, while KECP receives the Balearic run around as it is an international group) and also there is no record of any application and grant of licence after KECPs application to date..
Also ongoing efforts, funds (legal representation) and contact has been kept with the authorities ever since..

So the question under which authorization this project is being done and handled and how the GUE group received access is a very valid one..
Given the circumstances and the knowledge on applications/permits and their status, this seems a bit magic indeed..

[scubainchicago]

GUE has some very impressive and influential people within its membership

[floridabob]

GUE has some very impressive and influential people within its membership

Tongue in cheek?

[bent]

Access happens because motivated people get organised and negotiate with the appropriate stakeholder. It's normally a two-way thing and may take years of work behind the scenes.

The problem in Mallorca is that I can't find the right people to talk to, we've been trying to get permission for over a year now. Until 3 (?) years ago I would just bring a bottle of wine when I asked the landowner for permission to dive.

Then some sort of agency took over and now 'supposedly' they can't or won’t give permission anymore an neither does the county. Ask 5 people and you get 5 different answers. It was all great until people started posting videos on youtube... it all went down hill after that. Also, the American cave divers seem to be more open to share information than the folks over here.

If you want to join a project, I've found the majority of GUE folks are very welcoming if you are prepared to work with the principles. I dived support at Wakulla and Sullivan with only a few dozen C2/full cave dives, because I understood the system and could do something useful without compromising team safety.

Well, they might be welcoming if you're GUE trained. Frankly, the whole 'DIR is the only/best/safe way to dive and everyone else in a idiot' attitude, I find quite off putting. I doubt that a European project would let someone dive that's not GUE trained. I'm not a fan of the German DIR crowd and I don't wanna do a Fundi class.

As for side mount, we use it on our project at St Georges in France.

I bet they would not have done that 5 year ago.

The whole Mallorca situation just sucks.

[Steve Clark]

The attitude you describe doesn't really exist in the UK or Holland. It may have in the past, but it doesn't any more. I only know two German GUE folks, by email. They took hours out of their free time to help me with some survey software.

To work successfully on a GUE project, you need to be GUE trained. I'm a support diver, I see at lot of it and interact with a lot of different GUE divers. The efficiency of projects underwater only really works because people are all doing things the same way. Same hand signals, numbers etc. Communication and expected response. Same gas and deco strategy. 1/2+200 stage strategy. All stages rigged the same way. That's before you even start thinking about emergency responses. Last time I went to France, we moved 36 bottles to 1km in one day with 6 divers supporting two. With so much stuff, things break and need to be swapped. It all needs to be the same for redundancy.

The most highly skilled diver from another background is less useful than an new GUE guy. If procedures needed to be explained and agreed before every dive then the big task wouldn't happen in a day or mistakes would be made. Not dangerous things, simple logistical things.

There's no right way to dive, but a big team works better if everyone works to the same rules. If you don't like rules or can't see the benefit of a rigid framework for the good of the whole, GUE is not for you.

[gianaameri]

They are doing some fun dives and taking some videos and pics...