New GUE Project in Mallorca?

[bent]

I suspect your tone is giving the majority of readers the impression you're trolling. Your tone is clearly hostile towards GUE all through this thread. I don't believe GUE controls access to the cave, they simply gained access, so it seems your anger is perhaps pointed at the wrong group.

As for caves in my area are closed and only open to specific individuals, we've got a ton. By resorting to talking to the permit holder instead of insulting the permit holders all over the internet, I've been able to dive a handful of these.

Nice spin job, man. Were have I insulted the permit holders and were have I said that GUE control access? GUE obiously doesn't have any control over access.
Please don't accuse me of trolling, twist my words and than claim that I'm being hostile.

[bent]

Maybe you didn't get the memo, but GUE divers are using sidemount in caves when it's the correct tool for the job.

Right, and I'm the one who's trolling. Sorry, I should have known that I can't question anything GUE does without getting moronic comments from people who know nothing about this situation.

[gianaameri]

I suspect your tone is giving the majority of readers the impression you're trolling. Your tone is clearly hostile towards GUE all through this thread. I don't believe GUE controls access to the cave, they simply gained access, so it seems your anger is perhaps pointed at the wrong group.

As for caves in my area are closed and only open to specific individuals, we've got a ton. By resorting to talking to the permit holder instead of insulting the permit holders all over the internet, I've been able to dive a handful of these. These are just off the top of my head, there are far more.

Wakulla/Leon Sinks
Silver Glenn
Rose Sink
Weeki Wachee
Madison (DPV Use permit only)
Jug Hole (year round diving, permit only)
Cathedral (open only to the exploration group)
Otter Spring
Old Belamy
5 Hole
Suwanacoochee
Little Salt
Little Blue
M2 Blue
Beacon Woods

To clarify for the benefit of GUE and others, no individual or organization owns Cova de Pas de Vallgornera or Cova Genovesa (or the other 28 EU protected caves of Mallorca).

The landowner himself through which some (but not all) of these caves are accessed has no title to the caves (although his permission would be required to traverse and abode/station on his/her land).

They are part of the environment and the public wealth, and by law since March 2015 only a specific authority (the Direccion General de Espacios Naturales y Biodiversidad http://www.caib.es/govern/organigram...&coduo=2390926 ) can issue a License to access these caves.

So, it is different situation from other privately owned caves in other countries.

[jj1987]

To clarify for the benefit of GUE and others, no individual or organization owns Cova de Pas de Vallgornera or Cova Genovesa (or the other 28 EU protected caves of Mallorca).

The landowner himself through which some (but not all) of these caves are accessed has no title to the caves (although his permission would be required to traverse and abode/station on his/her land).

They are part of the environment and the public wealth, and by law since March 2015 only a specific authority (the Direccion General de Espacios Naturales y Biodiversidad http://www.caib.es/govern/organigram...&coduo=2390926 ) can issue a License to access these caves.

So, it is different situation from other privately owned caves in other countries.

I believe all of the caves I mentioned above are publicly owned as well. If we add private caves, the list is even longer. Since my original post, I've recalled even a few more public caves in FL in addition to that list.

[gianaameri]

I believe all of the caves I mentioned above are publicly owned as well. If we add private caves, the list is even longer.

Good, so you understand a License is required and these caves are open to some, but not all, and these GUE divers have none.

That is one issue.

The issue is compounded by the fact that since March 2015 specific legislation specifically forbids the tourist exploitation of these caves, be that from GUE divers or any other diver.

The issue is further compounded by the fact that since December 2014 30 cavers have applied for a License to dive these caves and are patiently waiting for it, while these GUE cavers are instead diving them (again no License and no evidence that they are doing it, in the best case scenario, other than for their fun and pleasure).

This is the reason why some people feel strongly about what is going on in Mallorca these days. There is nothing personal by anybody against GUE divers. If it was me and my friends doing it, the feelings would be exactly the same.

Just to clarify and to emphasise that GUE are more then welcome (certainly from my personal perspective) to carry out scientific work in these caves (indeed some GUE divers have applied for one such License, but not the guys diving these caves today, yesterday, and the day before yesterday).

[Grimm]

For the record, the appropriate permissions were secured. GUE members are required to abide by local regulations and the participants have. How and why is not anyone's business but theirs. As for SM, nothing in GUE standards precludes the use of this configuration.

[gianaameri]

For the record, the appropriate permissions were secured.

Not from the Direccion General de Espacios Naturales y Biodiversidad.

They issue no License to anyone until they have finished writing the protocol to grant access and I have a signed letter to this extent from the top person there.

If these divers have a License from the Direccion General de Espacios Naturales y Biodiversidad I challenge them to produce it.

Maybe they have been duped believing they could lawfully dive Cova Genovesa yesterday?

[bent]

For the record, the appropriate permissions were secured. GUE members are required to abide by local regulations and the participants have. How and why is not anyone's business but theirs. As for SM, nothing in GUE standards precludes the use of this configuration.

How do you know this? Why is it a secret were they got the permit from? Did they get it from Medio Ambiente and that's were they got the key from? If this is legit, why wouldn't you be willing to share that information?

All I hear is that GUE is very helpful and open, but they won't give out any informtion that would help fellow divers that aren't in the club.

[Grimm]

Duped or not; they held authorization to dive the sites they are diving

[Grimm]

Because how and from whom they secured their permit is their business. When I secured my permit to dive the Britannic I did not make it public how I accomplished this.