New GUE Project in Mallorca?

[bent]

The attitude you describe doesn't really exist in the UK or Holland. It may have in the past, but it doesn't any more. I only know two German GUE folks, by email. They took hours out of their free time to help me with some survey software.

To work successfully on a GUE project, you need to be GUE trained. I'm a support diver, I see at lot of it and interact with a lot of different GUE divers. The efficiency of projects underwater only really works because people are all doing things the same way. Same hand signals, numbers etc. Communication and expected response. Same gas and deco strategy. 1/2+200 stage strategy. All stages rigged the same way. That's before you even start thinking about emergency responses. Last time I went to France, we moved 36 bottles to 1km in one day with 6 divers supporting two. With so much stuff, things break and need to be swapped. It all needs to be the same for redundancy.

The most highly skilled diver from another background is less useful than an new GUE guy. If procedures needed to be explained and agreed before every dive then the big task wouldn't happen in a day or mistakes would be made. Not dangerous things, simple logistical things.

There's no right way to dive, but a big team works better if everyone works to the same rules. If you don't like rules or can't see the benefit of a rigid framework for the good of the whole, GUE is not for you.

Steve, I can see the benefit when doing large projects but none of this applies in Mallorca. There're diving sidemount and most of the cave don't require stages. GUE doesn't have any sidemount standards, do they? How do you rig stages for sidemount the GUE way?

[Steve Clark]

We don't. The kit is completely different. If necessary, single stage used for bulk working gas, rigged as usual. It's shallow once you get through the 75m sump (on an RB80) and 2 small steels are fine. We are trialing a prototype smaller version of the halcyon sm thing.

The guys spent some time with Martin Farr, picked his brain on the rig. We don't use long hoses on the sm or anything like that. It's more of a UK setup, just with two divers because there is enough space/vis for it to be useful for the survey.

As I said before, I know nothing about Majorca, but if I can help make diving fun for everyone and kill off some bad vibes from history, then I will try. I hope you get the access you want.

[gianaameri]

We don't. The kit is completely different. If necessary, single stage used for bulk working gas, rigged as usual. It's shallow once you get through the 75m sump (on an RB80) and 2 small steels are fine. We are trialing a prototype smaller version of the halcyon sm thing.

The guys spent some time with Martin Farr, picked his brain on the rig. We don't use long hoses on the sm or anything like that. It's more of a UK setup, just with two divers because there is enough space/vis for it to be useful for the survey.

As I said before, I know nothing about Majorca, but if I can help make diving fun for everyone and kill off some bad vibes from history, then I will try. I hope you get the access you want.

So, they have no formal training and certification to attest to their skills in Sidemount diving, in addition to not really carrying out a scientific activity in Cova de Pas de Vallgornera and Cova Genovesa and who knows where else today?

I am just trying to get the facts straight.

[bent]

... in addition to not really carrying out a scientific activity in Cova de Pas de Vallgornera and Cova Genovesa...

Well, we don't know that. I wonder what kind of scientific work could be done in Genovesa. The cave is tiny and has been surveyed years ago. I've send a facebook message to GUE and ask wether they can give me details about this project.

@Gian, let's just make it a GUE project. The current project doesn't follow any GUE rules... we can do that too. Signing up is only 40 bucks, that's less than what we have spend so far. We just need to figure out who gave them permission.

[gianaameri]

We just need to figure out who gave them permission.

You should ask them!

[Steve Clark]

I was talking about our team in France.

I don't know who is out in Majorca. I saw a picture of Os on Facebook. GUE instructor and exceptionally experienced CDG UK sump diver/mentor, I doubt he has a sm competency problem.

[gianaameri]

I was talking about our team in France.

I don't know who is out in Majorca. I saw a picture of Os on Facebook. GUE instructor and exceptionally experienced CDG UK sump diver/mentor, I doubt he has a sm competency problem.

To be a U.K. CDG diver apprentice requires two signatures each from one UK CDG Member.

The training is about two years.

Being GUE instructor and having a chat with Martyn Farr hardly qualifies to UK CDG standards. Certainly it does not make you a UK CDG diver or a certified Sidemount diver to the standards of any training agency.

The issue is that these specific caves in Mallorca have by legislation being classed in March 2015 as EU protected areas of special interest and conservation and a number of people including on the island and off the island feel strongly about what is going on at the moment. About 30 cavers have been waiting for 1.5 years for a License from the local authority to access these caves and we are aware these GUE divers are operating without a License issued by the local authority "Direccion General de Espacios Naturales y Biodiversidad" (and no GUE Sidemount qualification or maybe other...).

Imagine if the reverse were to happen in Wakulla how GUE would feel and how they would react.

[LiteHedded]

I don't think GUE would be butthurt at all if another group got permission to dive wakulla. It happens from time to time and gue really doesn't have anything to do with the diving there

[nakatomi]

I don't think GUE would be butthurt at all if another group got permission to dive wakulla. It happens from time to time and gue really doesn't have anything to do with the diving there

He's not talking about getting permission. He's talking about sneaking it without permission and then posting pictures ob FB.

And I have to agree that it sucks big time that instructors from several agencies can, due to "connections" to local groups, dive these caves for pleasure.

All the while people like Bent with no connections do not have the choice, even if they are genuinely interested in exploring, surveying and mapping.

[gianaameri]

I don't think GUE would be butthurt at all if another group got permission to dive wakulla. It happens from time to time and gue really doesn't have anything to do with the diving there

Nor would anybody in Mallorca or elsewhere - if a proper License were issued in the first instance from the appropriate authority and the system operated in a manner which is non-discriminatory and fair to all parties concerned.

Well, we'll find out from Facebook I guess the latest news on todays' GUE "Project Mallorca."