PFO closure

[cavekrazi]

I'd like to find out how cave divers do after having this procedure done. Anybody out there know somebody that had the procedure or heard anything that could shed light on the upside and downside of this procedure for reducing bends susceptibility.

[Sh0use]

Doug Ebersole would be a good guy to talk to.

[MichelleC]

Doug is definitely the guy to talk to. He is not only an expert interventional cardiologist, he's also a tech diver/instructor, so he "gets it."

Three months after my procedure I hopped back in the water doing the same dives that got me bent, with no ill effects. My experience does not a statistically-significant result make, but it has made a world of difference for me.

[bigdave]

but it has made a world of difference for me.

Out of curiosity, how has it made a world of difference?

25% of the general population have PFOs, and generally do not suffer ill effects (to include DCS) from the existence of their PFO.

David

[MichelleC]

Out of curiosity, how has it made a world of difference?

Real-world incidence of DCS is 4 / 10,000 dives.
Before the closure, I experienced skin bends 3 out of the last 8 dives, each time more severe than the previous. And likely pre-clinical DCS many more dives before that.
After the closure, no DCS symptoms (16 post-closure dives.) Having the PFO closed has allowed me to return to diving safely. That to me is a world of difference. Diving >> No Diving.

25% of the general population have PFOs, and generally do not suffer ill effects (to include DCS) from the existence of their PFO.

David

True...if anything your number is conservative. But for those who have a PFO or ASD and do experience symptoms, they are not going to get better on their own. I've met quite a few cave divers that are in denial of their symptoms. When I first experienced skin bends I was told "Welcome to the Club!"..."get used to it" by fellow cave divers, and basically "stop diving" by DAN. Neither was not an option I was willing to accept.

[bigdave]

Real-world incidence of DCS is 4 / 10,000 dives.
Before the closure, I experienced skin bends 3 out of the last 8 dives, each time more severe than the previous. And likely pre-clinical DCS many more dives before that.
After the closure, no DCS symptoms (16 post-closure dives.) Having the PFO closed has allowed me to return to diving safely. That to me is a world of difference. Diving >> No Diving.

Fair enough for your case and Ken's.

I am just taken aback by the report of divers that have never had the bends, and go take the test which turns out positive, and then have the procedure done. The procedure is not risk free. It is low risk, but there is still risk.

The science is pretty poor even on the topic of PFOs and stroke risk. There have been trials, but the samples are small and poorly controlled. And misinformation abounds, as is usually the case.

I am glad it has worked out for you and Ken.

My cardiologist says I don't have a PFO, but that was a byproduct of him doing a TEE looking for a blood clot. Fortunately I was quite unconscious at the time.

David

[kensuf]

My cardiologist says I don't have a PFO, but that was a byproduct of him doing a TEE looking for a blood clot. Fortunately I was quite unconscious at the time.

I tested negative on two TEE's but positive on a TTE (bubble study). The best guess is that while knocked out I wasn't able to perform a deep enough valsalva to open the PFO.

[FW]

Dr Ebersole is "debersole" on this forum.

[kensuf]

I wrote an article about my experience and posted it on my diving articles page.

http://www.divegainesville.org/mendi...-did-about-it/

BTW - other divers I know who have had the closure and had great success include a well known GUE Instructor Trainer/Evaluator and a well known CCR Instructor Trainer. I'd be happy to ask them if I can share their contact info.

[Sh0use]

I wrote an article about my experience and posted it on my diving articles page.

http://www.divegainesville.org/mendi...-did-about-it/

Great write up Ken. I enjoyed the read.