@Forrest
Pics look good! Looks like you're not using any weights on your shoulders, aren't you really food-heavy in that rig?
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@Forrest
Pics look good! Looks like you're not using any weights on your shoulders, aren't you really food-heavy in that rig?
I agree with Forrest as it can be done relatively inexpensive with good results. Since you are talking about taking your classes in Marianna and diving the Millpond I will use it as an example. If you go back into the back of the caves on the Millpond you will see that there were basically 3 or 4 explorers that pushed the sidemount passages. Ward Beecher and Scott Hunsucker did most of it with some help from Kevin Leonhardt. It appears to me they were the first to really push the caves in this area in sidemount even though Hunsucker's line arrows say WKPP.Marius Frei came over from Europe and went wild in Florida. He found the new section in Ginnie, connected a nasty passage in Little River, extended Manatee and then came up to the Millpond. He connected Jb1 to Jb2, extended Indian Washtub and pushed numerous leads out in Hole in the Wall. Bare in mind all this was done in the early to mid 2000's. The choice of sidemount rigs we have today were not available. I think the Nomad was the only one that was commercially available . It is my understanding that Jerry Murphy who works at CCDS designed it. It has since been redesigned with a larger wing that I think is not needed. Anyway my point is you don't have to have all the fancy rigs. Look what these guys did without them. Most people will never see the end of these guys lines in any fancy rig on the market.
Late to the party,
Don't twist my words to suit how you read something. You haven't been involved in of my posts to this point, so you really haven't a clue as to why I say what said. I've been told since the beginning that my most expensive gear would be the second one I buy. I'm trying to get the best opinions on to what to blatantly avoid when purchasing gear. I'd rather buy new for what it's worth because I want to know that it wasn't dogged by the previous owner and because if it's being sold cheap secondhand, then what's the guy diving now that he's so in love with? Just because I'm trying to save money, doesn't mean I'm willing to risk my life. I wouldn't be here asking so many questions if that were the case. I'd simply go out a buy something, or he'll go hit the caves in my OW gear. Gtfo here. I'm a father, a husband, a recent college grad with student loan debt, I'm a nurse, not a doctor. I make good money, not great money. But I know that I make enough and am smart enough to excel in this sport. That doesn't mean I want to waste money. That also doesn't mean I want to be cheap. I simply want to make smart decisions when it comes to buying my gear so that I have something good that will last me through my training so that I can focus more on shelling out money for training and experience rather than purchasing the same pieces of gear over and over.
It's important to realize as well that I won't be doing any new exploring or EOL pushing, as I'll be training and running the main line for 100's of dives to come. I'll be a recreational diver vs explorer for a long time. That's my point in saying that I'm sure just about any reputable commercial rig could work for me. In regards to building my own, I'm just saying that I'm not competent nor willing to try and put my own rig together at this point. I get that it's nothing but straps, a bladder, and some d-rings at the end of the day. I've built cars, I've built motorcycles, I can build things. I think my aprehensiveness in going out and building my own cave rig should be proof that I respect the sport as I'm the guy that doesn't spend money on anything he can do himself with regards to just about everything else in life. I appreciate the help and info- I really do. I apologize if I give conflicting messages of what I want but I'm trying to be clear. I'd be willing to buy a used rig so long as it came from a trustworthy person that many of you knew. I'd also be willing to buy regs used as I'd have them serviced before ever diving with them anyway where they could get a thorough looking over and resealed with fresh guts.
At the end of the day, I have NOT chosen my instructor yet. I've stated who I'm greatly leaning toward and who I trust, but I have also asked for recommendations, for which I haven't been given any. I ask previously who's your top recommendations and why to no avail.
There is plenty of lift in the lower part of the jacket to keep me trim. After all, the first "American sidemount" system was the old ScubaPro Stabilizer jacket. We went to the wing because they quit making the original Stab jackets, but I never liked it much. I used to modify the classic wings, by sewing loops around the edges, so I could bungee the wing across my chest, like a jacket. Then I decided to just go back to jacket BCDs. FWIW, I have tried three different Nomads, the Armadillo, and SMS100, and SMS75. All of them worked fine, for large cave sidemount, but lacked a lot in tight passage, especially sump diving. The biggest problem is the butt plate. There is no way to sit down to rest with that sticking out the back.Originally Posted by bent
While I do agree that you will be able to make do with most rigs out there, you may end up hating your choice (whatever it may be) fairly quickly.
In the beginning you will have to take someones word for what is "good or bad", since you will have no own experience and thus no real means to evaluate what people tell you and what options the rigs offer are for you.
One example is a friend of mine who bought a rig and found out she had issues reaching the dump because her arms were to short.
Essentially she went through hell in her cave class because she could only dump with one hand.
And about 20 dives after buying the rig she ended up getting something else, obviously this will result in a loss of money.
That's one of the reasons buying used can be really helpful. If you do end up finding something else you prefer, it's not as costly to replace your initial choice of gear.
I could give you a ton of recommendations and they would certainly work for ME, but ultimately it is YOU who needs to find the perfect instructor for yourself.I ask previously who's your top recommendations and why to no avail.
It depends entirely on what you are looking for in your instructor. How much experience teaching should he or she have: 5, 10 or 20 years of teaching?
Do you want someone who is laid back and will let you learn from your own mistakes or someone who will shred you to pieces as soon as you even begin to screw up?
Are you aware that some instructors will shut off your gas supplies, in zero vis too? Some rip off your mask, unclip your tanks, hit your knees if they hang?
Do you want an instructor who gets physical?
What else do you want your instructor to focus on? Not all instructors are alike. Some will value conservation more than anything. Others will focus on making you look good in the water.
Yet others will do all they can to make you an extra safe cave diver and turn you into a master in planning and performing safe dives.
Others may have an entirely different focus and not care too much about safety (yes, sadly they exist).
Ultimately you need to find out what you want and then ask around to see who matches your profile.
That's what I'm trying to do here... how do you guys find instructors without personally knowing them first? Friends of friends? Locally meeting them? I have LDS instructors here that I trust to teach OW friends and I send them to them regularly. It took many years of hanging around and buying OW gear from them over the last decade to build that rapport though, as I wasn't personally trained by them. I got trained in Florida through Boy Scouts when I was 15 and haven't seen or spoken to my instructor since. Only one guy that works at my LDS is even remotely interested in cave diving and he himself is in the beginning stages as well, so I don't know that I'd necessarily trust his choice just due to lack of experience with the guy. That's why I'm asking you guys. I loved Ginnie and according to their website, I could email any of their instructors and set up a class. How's that getting to know them first? I feel like I'm getting back into dating after being locked down for a decade. I don't know where to start, I would assume instructors would be surfing these forums and sending PM's introducing themselves. Although I've had a few of you reach out and do just that, none have been instructors to my knowledge (haven't stated so anyway).
My OW instructor was pretty physical I'd guess you'd say. When I tell my OW friends about our training they're always like "nope, never had any of that in OW training". He would come up behind us in our checkoff dives and shut our cylinders off. He'd rip our regs out our mouths and tie them behind us to where we couldn't possibly get it undone alone. He'd come by and rip our masks off. Sometimes rip our masks and regs out simultaneously. It was all about staying within proper distance of our dive buddy, having our dive buddy aware of our presence so that they could react as quickly as we would. I'd be reaching for my back up while they'd also be offering theirs, etc. We had to take our BCs off and put them back on underwater, etc. That type of training made me a good OW diver. I still practice all of those scenarios almost every time I go out. This type of instructor would have caused my wife to never go near water again. But he worked for me. I'm not a glutton for punishment, but his technique caused me to be sharp in the water because I always had to be thinking about the what-ifs.
What I want in an instructor: Someone who will get me back to surface every time successfully. Someone who cherishes the environment they're diving in because it says a lot about how they'll train their students to keep conserving the beauty after they're no longer diving themselves. I'm an Eagle Scout; I leave things better than when I found them. Someone who will allow me to make my own mistakes but not let me develop them into habits. I like the "Let's see if he changes it on his own and remembers what we discussed in class. No? Let me get onto him. Yes? Proud instructor- we'll discuss it post-dive." I want an instructor who isn't in it for the paycheck. Treat me like a friend, because I want to be your friend. You're in charge of my life and I need the utmost trust in you. I should give you that trust out of respect, not fear, while also fearing repercussions of what could happen at anytime things goes south. I want an instructor who remembers that I'm here for fun at the end of the day, but that also understands that I'm here to take this fun seriously. I work in a fast-paced, think-on-your-feet job where I use my brain 13 hours a day continuously, and the moment I don't, someone could be seriously hurt or killed. Thinking under pressure is fun for me. I'm not a dare devil. I'm not an adrenaline junky. I'm a person that takes calculated risk because I'm good with math, so the reward outweighs my risks at the end of the day. I follow rules. I'm trainable. I have a full understanding of what happens when you don't.
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. ~ Eleanor Roosevelt
"If a small thing has the power to make you angry, does that not indicate something about your size?" ~Sydney J. Harris
I'd love to see a cave diver competition to see how many people can pull off those skills and maintain their position in the water column as well as they did in the video. My bet is there's a good majority that can't.
PS. I think the OP is just boisterous and excited about learning, so I'd watch how quickly you jump to telling him he's not meant to be a tech diver. I think you're taking him too literal. I'm sure the same could be said if somebody reads one of my posts, your posts, or anybody else's post the wrong way. Anytime I've straight out called somebody a kook, it's because I actually know what their skills are, not what I read they wrote.
I am pretty sure i would fail that series of tests using 104s, but I suspect they would too. I am sure they would have trouble with the CDG qualifying exam
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