Should jumps be marked?

[JDR]

Reading a post from Caver95 reintroduces an idea that deserves discussion. It's great conversation for sitting on a tailgate by a hole, but I can't remember it ever being discussed here.
Should jumps be marked?
Do jumps need to be marked?

Of course they should be marked. I can't believe anyone would believe otherwise.

But then again, I don't have a huge ego.

[FW]

Hmmmm....

Define "marked".

Do you mean "should there be double arrows on the main line near the jump"?

[HomoErectus]

Depends who is diving the cave

[Caver95]

Of course they should be marked. I can't believe anyone would believe otherwise.

But then again, I don't have a huge ego.

its not about having an ego. Why do you feel they should be marked? If you cant find the passage keep swimming on the mail line learning the cave and developing cave awareness. There are lots of jumps in peacock that arent marked and it was fun finding them, and I am sure I havent found near all of them. But then again I dont mind diving the same place over and over again because I always see something new.

[Caver95]

Depends who is diving the cave

you but its true. No body wants a train wreck going threw a passage that only has the scars from the line being tied off.

[Gary]

Since it's not a saftey issue: No. Lines should not be marked.

Many lines are poorly marked and many lines are hidden out of sight from the main passage. Generally the more difficult the less likely o have any marking on the main line and the better hidden the jump. As such most divers will find more difficult lines as their awareness and dive skills progress - which then only leaves the problem of their judgement of whether or not they should be in a particualr passage.

There are some large, easy, well traveled jumps like the crossover tunnel that should be clearly marked. Best that divers find these passages first when discovering new lines and leave the others untouched until they are ready to dive them without risk to themselves or damage to the cave.


Many years ago there was a problem with stolen reels out of caves. The perpetrator was an old cave diver who felt that newer divers did not have the skills to be doing the dives they were doing. None of them were capable of running original llne, lining a cave that didn't have line already run for them. At best they were capable of running a reel or a gap reel a few hundred feet to the main line. While some other old time cave divers put an end to his pilerage the question remains how many of today's cave divers truely have the skills they should have. How many could re-line the cave they dive or line it from scratch if there were no line? How many have the cave awareness to find the passages if they weren't clearly marked already for them?

To me the answer is clear: the jumps shouldn't be marked for easy discovery. Too many of today's cave divers are line followers with poor reel skills diving far beyond in distance and time then their skills would allow them to do if not for the lines placed, marked and maintained by others.

[aw]

Now that I'm forced to think about it. I guess there's no real benefit to having the lines marked. From a safety standpoint, I guess it reduces the likelihood that a person will make a jump without a directional marker. But as soon as I see a double arrow in a cave, especially if I've never been there before, it does perk my ears up and I do look for the line even if I don't make the jump. So I can see where it could entice newer divers to get into harrier places quicker. A newer diver could make the mistaken assumption that because a jump is marked that it means the side tunnel is popular and thus a novice could try it.

I would be interested in hearing from some of the old timers where this practice started. I wonder if the current practice of permanently marking jumps mutated from exploration days where they might have placed a single arrow (or clothespin) to indicate a point of interest (side tunnel) that they want to explore on another dive, and the practice just kind of mutated a bit to include 2 arrows and became standard procedure. I highly doubt it, but it would make a little sense.

Perhaps another reason (albeit poor) that jumps started being marked in popular cave is to reduce the time a diver will hover still in one place. Especially with newer divers, the longer they are still in one place, the greater the chances of getting sloppy and marking up the cave. There's no excuse for that to happen, but it could be a reason. Then again, the alternative to that is install a permanent T. Then you get into the risk of confusing new divers. So maybe it is a safety/conservation issue all geared towards the newer cave diver and the fact cave diving has attracted more and more people. Dunno.

But the reality remains that many, if not most, are not marked. So the practice is not consistent by any means. It does save a second or two if the arrows are already in place, but I see no real benefit to it. It's also a quick reference when you are going to a particular side tunnel, you can usually see the doubles arrows upstream and locate your destination a second quicker. Again, no REAL benefit.

In all honesty, it doesn't affect my diving either way. If I see a side tunnel that looks like I'll fit, I'm gonna eventually tie off and see what's around the corner. Lots of times, I found line.

[Cindy]

My personal opinion is that there should not be any jumps! All lines should be clearly marked like ski slopes. Pink bunny lines for newbies or one line arrow. Best make it one line arrow for the sensitive types. More difficult lines should get two arrows. Places where a back mounted diver has to scrape his belly and his tanks. Three arrows for sidemount or no mount and four arrows on the line for GOD HELP YOU. Gees how many forums do we have to talk about line arrows on? Forrest, you started this mess, lead us out of the dark please! It seems that no one knows how to mark lines these days. Cindy

[HomoErectus]

..... It seems that no one knows how to mark lines these days. Cindy

that is why vital divers like you are so important.