Choosing Dive Buddies

[dogwatch]

Wasn't really discussing the merits of the video, because there was reference to several videos. I was pointing out the merits of a proper modified flutter kick which has become a lost art, and the benefits to cave conservation that it can provide based on the passage type. A full flutter kick, not a good thing in caves.

Bill Main is also VERY good with a modified flutter kick - it was cool to watch.

[Sludge]

A friend had a commercially-produced video of Madison Blue that was made in the early 1990s, and the diver that was shown most was a woman named Wendy (I forgot her last name). She had the most beautiful modified flutter kick I have ever seen.

[Garth]

Tough one to judge. I have met people who seem to have a tremendous knowledge, and my conclusion would be they have a lot of experience. I find out they have a lot of experience in the virtual/cyber world because they have read every forum, and watched every GoPro video ever posted on YouTube. Nothing ever beats in water assessment,but that is one thing you can never gain with cyberdiving.

Kelly,

I like this post of yours because it is something that I think about from time to time. I love to dive but admittingly don't get a chance to come to cave country often as I would like. Add that to me being new to the sport and it's a concern of mine. I also love hearing about others diving so I do spend quite a bit of time on the forums and watching GoPro footage. I wonder what others think of me prior to diving with me and predict they judge me to some level. I do have a few excellent mentors locally that have helped streamline my diving and raise the bar for me so I try to set high expectations for myself to ensure I continuously improve.

I am very critical of my performance in some situations and I enjoy talking about it. I often see my dives as having many things to improve on but overall I do enjoy them even with some failure.

One thing that usually heightens my awareness of this is diving a new to me system with someone who has dove there before and me being the one who is running the line. I generally like to follow in these situations because of the best tie offs, etc.

I will say it's nice to have someone who you know diving with you when you embarrass yourself...

I can't say enough about diving with people who are way above my skill level. I thoroughly enjoy it. It's like someone said earlier that it feels better when you "confess your sins" so to speak. I usually provide some level of expectations, limitations and skill level preparation prior to any dive with a new buddy. It seems to go well and communication is improved while underwater as well. One of my favorite things is to meet people in cave country that I get a chance to talk to on the forums so I hope to meet you one day.

Take care,

Garth


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[Germie]

I dive easy with most divers. But some divers I ignore. An easy dive to know each other before doing the serious dives is what I prefer.

I do the same with new students, I try to make an dive with them before starting a course. Then I can see how they dive and tell them what they can expect. And I know what I can expect.

On my harddisk I have some nice pictures of the most horrible tieoffs and jumps (jumps marked by cookies instead of arrows for example). I use them private to show what is absolutely wrong.

[Kelly Jessop]

Bill Main is also VERY good with a modified flutter kick - it was cool to watch.

Bill Main is all about efficiency in everything he does. I have seen him sustain a steady pace in high flow caves with using modified flutter kick, and at the same time only sip air. One thing I have to say about the group we like to call "the old timers". They really developed strong swim skills in caves before there were high tech DPVs, and even those that are still diving now still have those strong swim skills.

[MORGAN]

I'll do an easy dive with pretty much anyone who needs a buddy. A second dive? Well, we'll see how the first one goes. Since Tracy and I almost always dive together, the new buddy is a third, and if he or she turns out to be an utter numpty, at least Tracy and I have each other to rely on. We've gotten some of our best ongoing buddies by picking up a third who's looking for a buddy, and we've had only a couple of duds.

We don't interrogate them before diving with them, or make them provide a resume, but we do like to chat and make sure that we're on the same page, especially with safety.

The biggest determinant is attitude. If somebody seems calm, competent, low key, and happy to do a not too demanding first dive, more than likely all will be well. If he seems like he's trying to prove something, talks a big game, is impatient or unwilling to do an easy first dive, or apparently suffers from testosterone poisoning, we'll probably let him find someone else to dive with. Those guys aren't usually looking to buddy up with a middle-aged couple, though, so it's somewhat self-selecting.

Almost all of our experiences with pick-up buddies have been positive.

Mike

[floridabob]

This is always an interesting thread.

I can remember a few years ago sharing what my criteria were for diving with someone new to me. I thought I was doing pretty well and had a decent handle on things.

Big cave first time ... Maybe I knew the instructor ... Maybe they were vetted by a mentor ... Maybe a buddy of a buddy ... and so on.

It was shortly after that, I dove with someone the first time and we did the Grand Traverse. Probably the worst cave dive I can ever remember. My trim side to side was god awful with a *very* pronounced roll to one side. I later figured out there was an issue (my own doing) causing unequal lengths on the SM bungees of my rig. One was pulling way too tight on the wing causing an inflation imbalance.

Anyway, after the dive, I had lunch with the guy at the Luraville Country Store. He was very pleasant, but never brought up the topic of a second dive. When we were done eating, he could not get away fast enough

Well it was a good lesson for me. The evaluation should always be a two way street. If you are ready to give a lesson, you should also be ready to take a lesson.

Make it a point after the dive to review everything. I generally find time during surface deco to "Confess my own sins" (Thanks Bob!), review and learn.

I have been privileged to dive with numerous folks that I consider top notch. I take away more than I give to be certain, but much more often than not, they will dive with me again.

I'd still love a chance to dive with that guy from the Grand Traverse dive again... We could both enjoy it this time.

I kinda hate to get this thread back on the track the OP had in mind but I missed this reference to me till now. So I have a few points:

1. Its fun to trash each other face to face. Its part of what I really enjoy: The "how you fudged up" and "how I fudged up". Do it every dive...and if its really bad for a few dives after.

2. If you dont run some silly jump line then you never have to learn all that crazy marking shiite, Ken.

3. Choosing a dive buddy is not the same as diving with someone a single time only. Loosen up.

4. When you do lower yourself to dive with someone you dont know, just run it as two solo divers on the same route and cover the basics to your's and their comfort level.

5. This stuff is supposed to be fun so do what you enjoy.

Bob

[Draker]

1. Its fun to trash each other face to face.

Bob

Does that make you a masochist or a sadist?

[kidsdream]

First off I want to thank the many people who have buddied up with me during my cave diving journey. Like most, I have found the best way is to take it easy and dive known cave passages for the first dive or two. As many of my Cave Country trips are 3 day diving affairs, I've "picked" up quite a few buddies off of the CDF. And I have enjoyed almost every dive - and hopefully my buddies have felt the same and have put up with my slow pace in the water.

Early on, I was almost always the less experienced cave diver, learning new systems and passages through the mentoring of others. More recently I have passed along some of those experiences and directional guidance. I do have to really thank Forrest as he has taken me on my first dives to Cow and Rocky Horror/Courtyard at Madison and well as been a great buddy at systems I already know well. And who can forget last year's low vis. run into Cathedral.

Lastly, I would in fact dive again with Diveconjeff notwithstanding our tough 1st Grand Traverse dive at Peacock.

And if anybody is looking for buddy December 23-25, I am in the search a dive partner - including possibly a photo shoot dive or a scooter run into Ginnie.

[FW]

If you are looking for the discussion about marking jumps, that has been moved to a new topic. We are trying to keep the discussions matching the thread topic