P II

[twaldo]

Your goal of pissing everyone off will only succeed if you state Sonny's as the best BBQ...

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Sonny's is only cool cause it was in one of Wes n Jill's videos, but the best BBQ in FL goes to Atkins in Bell (and a close 2nd to a place that was in KeyLargo)

That said, I have no intent on pissing anyone off, it starts out as fun jabs from people I expect to do just that and snow balls into flames sprouting from the seams of my laptop screen because it offends people that I dive appropriate to my comfort level...

We need to do some dives at Pearl Lake, do they open in the winter for ice diving?

Tim

[kensuf]

actually looks like a nice dive, a bit tight for me just yet as I'm not 100% comfortable on my buoyancy in the sense of where I think I should be.... with a lot of passage having 3-6 feet height and likely NO flow. If I can find a job that keeps me in Cave country ask me again in six months. It's not like I'm making silt angels, but my sense of location in the water column tends to have me bouncing off the ceiling still a bit much. Not as much as I did 6 months ago, but enough that I would say my personal buoyancy still needs work.

I thought you were a scuba instructor? And your buoyancy isn't top notch?

[kensuf]

May give an explanation of why there are more accidents at the intro level versus the other cert levels.

I haven't seen an intro diver die in a couple of years but the last few were definitely full cave. Maybe I'm reading the wrong accident reports.

[kensuf]

Oh wait, no one really publishes accident reports anymore.

[twaldo]

I thought you were a scuba instructor? And your buoyancy isn't top notch?

More like my awareness of the overhead isn't top notch... and with a cave that goes up and down a lot... like pretty much every single cave I've been in... I tend to run into the ever changing ceiling. My last dive was only twice.... compared to right after certification it was like every 100 feet. But I think 2 times in 2200 feet is still a bit much.

I can always run close to the bottom and not silt anything out, but in something like Little River or Ginnie being on the bottom tends to either put me closer to deco or violating NAUI's 100' depth limit.

but then I'm pretty sure you are just picking on me in jest....

Tim

[nakatomi]

More like my awareness of the overhead isn't top notch... and with a cave that goes up and down a lot... like pretty much every single cave I've been in... I tend to run into the ever changing ceiling. My last dive was only twice.... compared to right after certification it was like every 100 feet. But I think 2 times in 2200 feet is still a bit much.

Come on Tim, are you serious or trying to troll us?

There are instructors that will thumb the dive if the student makes contact with the cave, and will end the class if this is an issue that repeats itself.
Getting a c-card being an uncontrolled human missile in a fragile environment is sort of like getting a drivers license but bumping into traffic signs, pedestrians and other cars frequently.
It should not happen.

[twaldo]

Oh wait, no one really publishes accident reports anymore.

only the major ones...

However, its funny HOW MANY people are PM'ing me about people they have seen violating 6ths.... but don't want to post it because they will get flamed. Guess I just like to be THAT guy.

[twaldo]

Come on Tim, are you serious or trying to troll us?

There are instructors that will thumb the dive if the student makes contact with the cave, and will end the class if this is an issue that repeats itself.
Getting a c-card being an uncontrolled human missile in a fragile environment is sort of like getting a drivers license but bumping into traffic signs, pedestrians and other cars frequently.
It should not happen.

You'll never really know
could just be my excuse to not dive with Pete. Better to say my skills are lacking.

I DID however run the ENTIRE length from the distance end of Peanut Tunnel to end of the gold line in cavern zone, mask off and never touched a thing besides the gold line...
I think I was supposed to close my eyes and leave my mask on... but I would have cheated albeit unintentionally.
So pretty sure I'm not a human missile.

[kensuf]

only the major ones...

However, its funny HOW MANY people are PM'ing me about people they have seen violating 6ths.... but don't want to post it because they will get flamed. Guess I just like to be THAT guy.

Sadly there are people that break rules. Instructors cannot do anything about it once the student has completed their training and graduated from their course. During training, the instructor can stress why the rules are in place and to gain experience slowly -- the c-card is a license to learn speech.

FWIW, I witnessed four brand new certified openwater divers do a dive to 85' in August. They just completed their certification the day before. If I were to extend your logic, instead of an OW certification their course should have included a deep diver specialty.

I think there's a place for the NAUI progression (I'm a NAUI cave instructor), but I don't think it's appropriate for all people. But I view a NAUI Cave 1 card as very similar to the NSS-CDS/NACD "Apprentice" level, except that it doesn't expire. It's a "zero to almost hero" course. Many people are better served by just staying on the gold line while developing the skill and awareness to quit bumping into the ceiling rather than adding navigational decisions and complexity into their diving.

I think there's something to be said by completing Intro then going and doing 20-30 dives before progressing further. There's a lot of cave to see well within those limitations.

[nakatomi]

This bumping into the ceiling issue makes me truly appreciate organizations like GUE that require a student to master the entire skill set required for full cave, before starting the overhead training. Cave training is to learn about cave diving, not to learn basic diving skills.
And to get back to the ceiling bumps, neutral buoyancy and awareness of your surroundings is not something that should be attempted to learn in a cave either. I bet your instructor will get a real bad headache reading all this.