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  1. #1
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    Default Is too much fresh water used to water Florida lawns?

    Wasting fresh water is a real concern. A recent study conducted with homeowners in central Florida found that, on average, 64 percent of the drinking water used by homes went to irrigation. In the summer months, this percentage increased to 88 percent. As the population increases, conservation of fresh water becomes increasingly important.

    and willing to comply with government agency-imposed lawn watering restrictions—want to conserve water, although many are confused about how to conserve water. At the same time, many homeowners are also required to have perfect, green lawns or risk being penalized by their Home Owner's Associations (HOAs).

    What is a homeowner to do?

    In a study entitled "It's Going to Take More Innovation than Technology to Increase Water Conservation Practices," researchers from the University of Florida examined the perceptions of homeowners in Orange County, Florida who have automated irrigation systems and looked deeply into their water conservation knowledge and practices.

    "The purpose of [our] study was to examine the perceptions of homeowners...who have automated irrigation systems [about] the use of norms that could be employed to reduce water used for lawn care," said study co-author Liz Felter of the University of Florida.
    The researchers also looked at the role of "social marketing" efforts to encourage people to conserve water, the barriers to water conservation, and how peer pressure might be involved in successfully implementing water conservation measures. They wanted to know what barriers might exist to increasing water conservation even when community- based social marketing (CBSM) was employed to encourage conservation.

    The researchers used focus groups comprising homeowners who answered questions and participated in discussions. Focus group participants were asked to describe how they watered their lawns and what conservation practices they currently utilized.

    In evaluating the barriers to conservation, the researchers found that several themes emerged from these discussions. "One of the major themes to emerge from the focus groups was a lack of knowledge on how to care for the grass," explained Felter. Some sub-themes included confusion about watering restriction days, an inability to use the timer correctly, and pressure from the HOA to water excessively to achieve perfect grass.

    In evaluating norms of water use, a major theme was a desire on the part of the homeowners to abide by the watering restrictions. This theme was counterpoint to not wanting to risk being penalized by their HOA if their lawns were not "perfect."
    Emerging from this study is the conclusion that "the largest barrier [to conservation], pressure from the HOA to have perfect grass by watering excessively, will have to be addressed." They note that, "even with the proper information and the ability to perform the new skills needed to reduce their water use, participants were concerned about repercussions from the HOA."
    In response to this dilemma, the researchers suggested that state water regulation officials and HOA representatives meet to help with planning future water needs and use. They also concluded that community-based social marketing is a good approach for encouraging residents to increase their water conservation practices.


    Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2015-08-fresh-f...lawns.html#jCp


    "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed that is the only thing that ever has."
    - Margaret Mead, Anthropologist

    "Men wanted for hazardous journey. Low wages, bitter cold, long hours of complete darkness. Safe return doubtful. Honour and recognition in event of success."

    Earnest Shackleton

  2. #2

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    The bogus idea that every Florida home has to have a "perfect" lawn drives me crazy. If I lived in an HOA area that demanded that, it would get very interesting....


  3. #3
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    Default

    WEPIV.. It would not really get very interesting. They would just get the HOA Lawyer to fine you, then place a lean on your house until you submit. If you hold out, you will never be able to clear a title search and sell your house. Worst case scenario, they will sue you and possible get a legal judgement against you. Maybe you will find that interesting. ...I did not.

    I lived in an Orlando (Winter Garden) subdivision with a typical HOA from '04 to '12. In that timeframe, we had to replace our entire lawn twice due to complications of trying to keep St Augustine alive in this climate. We also received several fines from said HOA during the "Brown" times when our dead lawn was waiting to be replaced. It is now my understanding that HOAs cannot enforce grass "Type" restrictions which enables homeowners to convert lawns to more drought/pest resistant grass like Zoysia. Unfortunately, there is still peer pressure from neighbors to keep the St Augustine that looks more consitent with the neighbors, but that would not really stop be from converting.

    IMHO, the major issues to solve are:
    >Never buy a house with an HOA again, and just aboid this whole issue.(Done)
    >Educate home owners on some basic stuff.. ie: Water in the early AM where water is absorbed and does not evaporate
    >Orange County requires annual backflow certification, but they don't check rain sensors. (which go bad a lot), or timers
    >Way too many folks have NO idea how to upkeep, repair, or maintain there sprinkler system.


  4. #4

    Default

    While I fully understand what you're saying, I'm a fighter and definitely think outside the box.
    Being a former journalist and having family members in the legal profession, I would, at the very least, bring some much needed attention to these bogus HOA rules. (Regardless of them doing what they could legally.)
    We had a guy come in to our neighborhood many years ago having bought a piece of property for supposedly building a home to live in. We caught on pretty quickly that he had borrowed money to buy the property only to clear-cut the trees, sell them, make money and then sell the now General Sherman looking field. In addition to that, he was attempting to also get paid to cut other people's trees down and indeed even came on our property and cut some, obviously without our permission. (All this being done outside the limits of our neighborhood agreements.)
    I had the week off from work and made it my daily mission to stop him using local, state and federal agencies, including all local media outlets, and we did. He left the neighborhood.
    I can and will make it my life's mission to work on something like this when and if needed.


  5. #5

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    America, land of the free???


  6. #6
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    Default

    Yeah, florida is ###### up in some ways.
    My situation is strange...
    I have a well but got town water from Palm Beach County (I live just over the line in Martin county) about 10 years ago.
    I still use my well for irrigation and I do my best to be conservative.
    In times of drought (or water restrictions) They limit our watering in the district to two days a week. Even though I am using a well and I don't live in palm beach county I am limited.
    Now, during these restrictions you can watch every town piss away half of their irrigation water EVERY MORNING by watching it run down the streets from poor sprinkler set up.
    Yet, the home owners are restricted....
    It gets even better....
    During restrictions they limit my irrigation even though I am using a well. But I can still wash all my vehicles using town water once a week as long as I do it on the lawn...
    And there is no restriction on filling my pool, I can add as much as I want, any time I want. I never lower it as it will fill up just to the top of the skimmer opening before it overflows internally and I just leave it in case of a dry spell. I try to hold out for rain but if it doesn't rain I may have to add 1000-2000 gallons at a shot...
    Stupid people.

    "Is this thing on?"

  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adler View Post
    WEPIV.. It would not really get very interesting. They would just get the HOA Lawyer to fine you, then place a lean on your house until you submit. If you hold out, you will never be able to clear a title search and sell your house. Worst case scenario, they will sue you and possible get a legal judgement against you. Maybe you will find that interesting. ...I did not.
    I'd say this heavily depends upon the HOA. My neighborhood outsources HOA management to a 3rd party company because it's one of the larger ones in East Orlando and it seems all they do is intimidate without following up.

    They like to send me letters threatening to fine me each time the management company sees my boat in my driveway (usually Monday AM when they drive by and I haven't put it in storage on my lunch break or before dinner). Boat storage is prohibited in a section banning boats, commercial vehicles and trucks -- yes trucks even if they're non commercial-- but specific provisions are given for temporary storage during projects with no clear definition of the duration or frequency this allows. I'm rambling, but in essence every time I get a letter I write the management company and demand my rights to a hearing be honored under the following FS.

    FS 720.305(b)
    A fine or suspension may not be imposed without at least 14 days’ notice to the person sought to be fined or suspended and an opportunity for a hearing before a committee of at least three members appointed by the board who are not officers, directors, or employees of the association, or the spouse, parent, child, brother, or sister of an officer, director, or employee. If the committee, by majority vote, does not approve a proposed fine or suspension, it may not be imposed. If the association imposes a fine or suspension, the association must provide written notice of such fine or suspension by mail or hand delivery to the parcel owner and, if applicable, to any tenant, licensee, or invitee of the parcel owner.
    Since most HOA's don't actually have a way to provide a hearing as required under the above FS, they can't actually place liens against your property.

    Also, since the bylaws for a lot of HOA's were written 20-30+ years ago here in Orlando, they're not nearly as firmed up as what you would expect in a professionally written document. Ours have multiple contradictions and unclear policy is the norm. Because of this, even if they could fine, they're very difficult to defend in court since courts generally side with the person who DIDN'T write the contract in the case of ambiguity. The kick in the nuts with that is, at least in my case, a huge percentage of the membership needs to vote to approve new bylaws, and most members won't/don't vote. Since postage is so expensive and turnout is so low, our HOA doesn't even try to update the bylaws.

    Last, the liens against the property are almost always eliminated or reduced in the case of a bank repossessing the home, so if an HOA does go through the legal hoops to fine, typically the worst offenders just walk away from the debt anyways.

    -James Garrett
    http://www.jamesg.net
    Quote Originally Posted by Slüdge View Post
    ...AL...he's just about worthless for anything other than giving you extra gas.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    Yeah, florida is ###### up in some ways.
    My situation is strange...
    I have a well but got town water from Palm Beach County (I live just over the line in Martin county) about 10 years ago.
    I still use my well for irrigation and I do my best to be conservative.
    In times of drought (or water restrictions) They limit our watering in the district to two days a week. Even though I am using a well and I don't live in palm beach county I am limited.
    Now, during these restrictions you can watch every town piss away half of their irrigation water EVERY MORNING by watching it run down the streets from poor sprinkler set up.
    Yet, the home owners are restricted....
    It gets even better....
    During restrictions they limit my irrigation even though I am using a well. But I can still wash all my vehicles using town water once a week as long as I do it on the lawn...
    And there is no restriction on filling my pool, I can add as much as I want, any time I want. I never lower it as it will fill up just to the top of the skimmer opening before it overflows internally and I just leave it in case of a dry spell. I try to hold out for rain but if it doesn't rain I may have to add 1000-2000 gallons at a shot...
    Stupid people.
    Lawn watering restrictions apply to all sources of water except for re-use water.


  9. #9
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jj1987 View Post
    ..Since most HOA's don't actually have a way to provide a hearing as required under the above FS, they can't actually place liens against your property.

    Also, since the bylaws for a lot of HOA's were written 20-30+ years ago here in Orlando, they're not nearly as firmed up as what you would expect in a professionally written document. Ours have multiple contradictions and unclear policy is the norm. Because of this, even if they could fine, they're very difficult to defend in court since courts generally side with the person who DIDN'T write the contract in the case of ambiguity. The kick in the nuts with that is, at least in my case, a huge percentage of the membership needs to vote to approve new bylaws, and most members won't/don't vote. Since postage is so expensive and turnout is so low, our HOA doesn't even try to update the bylaws.

    Last, the liens against the property are almost always eliminated or reduced in the case of a bank repossessing the home, so if an HOA does go through the legal hoops to fine, typically the worst offenders just walk away from the debt anyways.
    I am sure you are right. I can only speak from my experience. We Sold our Winter Garden Home in 2012 via corporate buy out during a job change relocation. We had gotten a few fines from our HOA due to dead grass and a dead palm tree. I can tell you with certainty that there was a lein placed on our house, because it held up our relo buy-out several days while we paid the HOA the ~$300ish bucks they wanted from us, and got them to send a certified letter confirming said payment.

    Maybe this was just not a typical HOA? There was a huge neiborhood 'civil war' over the possible anexation of Bronson's Landing which was supposed to be phase 3 of our subdivision. So maybe there was some underlining factor that got our HOA all amped up to target us for special treatment.

    Anyway, ...I will never live under an HOA again. The corruption there was rediculous. Real estate agents, working with HOA presidents etc, totally screwing over about 12 home owners so that the other side could stop the annexation that was an established plan from day 1. (sorry for the rant)

    Mark


  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Turtle View Post
    Lawn watering restrictions apply to all sources of water except for re-use water.
    No, it doesn't apply to towns. And I am not even in the same county.

    "Is this thing on?"


 

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