DPV Gas Planning Golden Rule

[LiteHedded]

this north florida bickering is sweet. why are we throwing this guy under the bus? just 'cus? love it

[MichaelAngelo]

First of all, what are these "buddy bottles" you speak of?

Secondly, my golden rule of DPV diving is very simple.... Always have enough gas to swim out.

Agreed

[MichaelAngelo]

this north florida bickering is sweet. why are we throwing this guy under the bus? just 'cus? love it

That's why my golden rule of cave diving internet surfing is to never ever post anything. No way no how not a single word

[victorzamora]

It was Ainslie's article that really changed my attitude about planning every dive, rather than a shoot from the hip approach. I do know divers taking AL40's on virtually every penetration. In a perfect world, where nothing else goes wrong, AL40's would work. Unfortunately, we don't dive in a perfect world.

Andrew Ainslie's article scare the panties off of me when I read it. Even in high-flow caves I know well, I've started turning earlier and earlier. With stages, I've gotten more conservative. I don't have a rebreather or a scooter, but have been going through the mental excercises for both (getting a scooter, dreading the thought of wanting a CCR) and have found myself remembering his story when I add conservatism to my theoretical plans. The easier/smaller dives don't hurt my feelings as badly. I'm building experience slowly to get to where I can be a better judge of things, but learning from stories like that and experienced people around me are great supplements. It's why I ask questions.

LiteHedded: I'd definitely love for there to just be some magic number (eg: one AL80 per 800ft), but I know it won't cover all scenarios. To me, it's understanding how people arrive at suggestions that matters. If you understand WHY someone plans one way, it's easy to determine if you agree. If I give you a number: Dive to thirds, but with no explanation...it's easy to breach it. Thirds makes so much sense to me. It's a third in, third out, third for reserve. It makes it easy to understand that "just a little farther" really isn't safe. It makes it easier to add conservatism because that reserve third won't be enough with a hoover on the end of my hose in a low-flow system. I understand those. I'd love to hear why people think what they think.

[LiteHedded]

Andrew Ainslie's article scare the panties off of me when I read it. Even in high-flow caves I know well, I've started turning earlier and earlier. With stages, I've gotten more conservative. I don't have a rebreather or a scooter, but have been going through the mental excercises for both (getting a scooter, dreading the thought of wanting a CCR) and have found myself remembering his story when I add conservatism to my theoretical plans. The easier/smaller dives don't hurt my feelings as badly. I'm building experience slowly to get to where I can be a better judge of things, but learning from stories like that and experienced people around me are great supplements. It's why I ask questions.

LiteHedded: I'd definitely love for there to just be some magic number (eg: one AL80 per 800ft), but I know it won't cover all scenarios. To me, it's understanding how people arrive at suggestions that matters. If you understand WHY someone plans one way, it's easy to determine if you agree. If I give you a number: Dive to thirds, but with no explanation...it's easy to breach it. Thirds makes so much sense to me. It's a third in, third out, third for reserve. It makes it easy to understand that "just a little farther" really isn't safe. It makes it easier to add conservatism because that reserve third won't be enough with a hoover on the end of my hose in a low-flow system. I understand those. I'd love to hear why people think what they think.

the way i approach a dive is to look at what resources I want to have at the end. i add gas and equipment until i feel warm and fuzzy about it. sometimes it's enough gas to swim to the exit, sometimes it's more scooters or safety bottles

all dpv dives are not created equal. this is why james' suggestion to find a dpv instructor that does more than teach, and dives more than ginnie and jackson blue, is a great one.

[victorzamora]

all dpv dives are not created equal. this is why james' suggestion to find a dpv instructor that does more than teach, and dives more than ginnie and jackson blue, is a great one.

I'm signed up for one and very much looking forward to it, but this thread was general curiosity and following up what I thought was a really interesting point in another thread.

Your point about a warm fuzzy feeling is interesting, though. A buddy and I were on a dive that was supposed to be a piece of cake and super routine. I lost that warm fuzzy feeling and turned it. Hugely eye-opening for the both of us, big discussion was had after that. Next dive was delayed so we could discuss further.

[apitkin]

the way i approach a dive is to look at what resources I want to have at the end. i add gas and equipment until i feel warm and fuzzy about it. sometimes it's enough gas to swim to the exit, sometimes it's more scooters or safety bottles

all dpv dives are not created equal. this is why james' suggestion to find a dpv instructor that does more than teach, and dives more than ginnie and jackson blue, is a great one.

Quite. Also, there is no substitute for experience, gained slowly enough that you can make some 'educational' mistakes and survive to learn from them. Same as a lot of areas in advanced cave diving that you cannot learn from an instructor. A good mentor is probably much more useful.

[PfcAJ]

I'm signed up for one and very much looking forward to it, but this thread was general curiosity and following up what I thought was a really interesting point in another thread.

Your point about a warm fuzzy feeling is interesting, though. A buddy and I were on a dive that was supposed to be a piece of cake and super routine. I lost that warm fuzzy feeling and turned it. Hugely eye-opening for the both of us, big discussion was had after that. Next dive was delayed so we could discuss further.

Experience can be a great teacher.

The other side of that coin is how harsh experience can be if you're in over your head.

[LiteHedded]

I'm signed up for one and very much looking forward to it, but this thread was general curiosity and following up what I thought was a really interesting point in another thread.

Your point about a warm fuzzy feeling is interesting, though. A buddy and I were on a dive that was supposed to be a piece of cake and super routine. I lost that warm fuzzy feeling and turned it. Hugely eye-opening for the both of us, big discussion was had after that. Next dive was delayed so we could discuss further.

sounds like you had enough resources for that dive and made it out. if you're looking for a gas plan that 100% ensures you survive a dpv dive, you might be left wanting. just like diving to thirds doesn't ensure you have enough gas either. stack the odds in your favor all you can and dive a plan that you're comfortable with. calculating gas to 'swim out' is a good start but realize when that's not the smart option and plan resources accordingly

[Superlyte27]

calculating gas to 'swim out' is a good start but realize when that's not the smart option and plan resources accordingly

You got that right. Imagine you're 3000' back at 300' deep and your dive plan is already pushing the limits of your thermal protection. So what if you got enough gas to swim out, are you going to get bent like a pretzel because you can't handle the cold from a crap load of additional deco swimming versus additional scooter.