Underground Caves

[JE]

No relation to caving-!



j.

[RD Milhollin]

Hippyman,

Your request was for information on underground caves, but since you posted on the Cave Diver's Forum I am going to guess you had underwater caves in mind as well. Vernon is in an interesting area in that the underlying bedrock is primarily gypsum rather than limestone, which is more prevalent in the rest of Texas. Gypsum is much more soluable in water, thus the caves formed there are formed there are more subject to rapid change in character after rains, and these caves typically have many surface openings. Underwater caves in gypsum are often very unstable, and thus any diving through them needs to be considered as highly dangerous. The sinkhole at Wink is an example of a similar subsurface cavern collapse, although the subsurface rock in that area has a larger amount of breccia than where you are.

There are water caves in your area, and dry caves as well. Along the Pease River not too far from you are several significant gypsum caves that are periodically visited by cavers from Oklahoma, the DFW area, and by your closest organized caving group, the North Texas Speleological Society in Wichita Falls. Don't look for them on the National Speleological Society web site, though. The NTSS is an independent caving club, not affiliated as a local "grotto" club with the NSS. Also, north of you along the Red River is the longest gypsum cave in the US, as far as I know. The gypsum extends a hundred miles or so south and north through the oil patch (which helps explain the presence of the gypsum), and goes many hundreds of miles west to the edge of the ancient coral reef that defines the Permian Basin, and that is where Carlsbad Caverns is located. There, the gypsum meets the limestone, and cave formation is especially dramatic. To the west, in the Arbuckles, there are limestone caves that have been explored significant distances using SCUBA equipment, but be aware that all these sites (except the lands around Carlsbad) are on private property and permission is needed to poke around there. Best advice from me would be to contact the folks at NTSS; if you need some contact information PM me and I will get you in touch.

RD Milhollin
Cowtown Grotto
Fort Worth

[hippyman]

Are there any other cavers around my area? I am new to cave exploring, so I will need help.

[FW]

Are there any other cavers around my area? I am new to cave exploring, so I will need help.

Look at the bottom of the Forum page. There is a Texas Forum. PM the moderator, and he can give you access to the Texas Forum.

[OutlawCaver]

Finding caves and rock quarries are SIMPLE. Just look for no trespassing signs. That is how I always located rock quarries for diving in the northeast.

[RD Milhollin]

Hippyman,

I will repeat that the closest collection of cavers to your area are in Wichita Falls, which appears to be about 45 or 50 miles from Vernon. I will be glad to give you contact info (phone, e-mail) for the NTSS club there if you PM me, or send an e-mail (rdmilhollinatcharterdotnetend) but don't like to put that sort of stuff on an open forum without people's permission. If Wichita Falls is not in your defined area you are going to just have to ask around. If you are an NSS member, or know one, the annual Member's Manual is a good resource to which cavers are near you. Again, this is a cave DIVING forum, and I am a little confused as to whether you are asking for contacts for caving (ie dry caving, walking, crawling, climbing, digging, slinking, dragging, etc.) or cave DIVING (ie swimming though submerged cave passages, generally using some form of self-contained breathing apparatus.)

Since cave DIVING is not a very popularly pursued pasttime in your/our area, if you want to get trained to do this (and by all means don't even get the idea of swimming underground with SCUBA without being a very competent/experienced diver, and get the best training you can find) you will need to travel to areas where more ideal conditions like clear water exist. Once SCUBA certified, a good introduction to what a submerged cave might look like without actually placing yourself in any extra undue hazard would be to travel to Santa Rosa New Mexico. The water is cold, but the deep sink there ("Blue Hole") is formed in a limestone region with an active aquifer beneath, all in a semi-desert environment.

Now, assuming that as you write you are interested in learning more about CAVING (the non-diving kind) I would make the following recommendations, some echoed by other forum members who have answered previously:

1. Get with your local caving club (NTSS). They have cave access, specialized knowledge, possibly gear to loan for one of their trips, and lots of experience doing this sort of thing. Not really that far away, considering how far we drive to get to caves we want to see.

2. Try this link to a forum dealing with Texas caving in general, not just cave DIVING: http://www.texascaving.com/

3. Look up this web site: www.caves.org
This is for the NSS, lots of info there to help you get started in caving, lots of links, resources, etc.

There are occasional trips to caves in your area by cavers from the DFW area, if you want me to get in touch with you when one of these trips comes up next, contact me and I will try to let you know. I am the secretary of a new NSS-affiliated caving club in Fort Worth (Cowtown Grotto) and can find out from the other North Texas Grottos (DFW in Dallas and Maverick in Arlington). There is even a "virtual grotto" called NETcavers (North East Texas Cavers) that anyone in the region can join, and meetings are held on-line; this might be what would best suit you.

Does any of this help answer your question?

[Webmaster]

All underwater caves are underground, but not all underground caves are underwater.

[crazyduck]

Until it rains....

[curtschu]

RD your post was great and full of useful information. I just wonder if the original post is legit due to the simplistic response. It seems we get folks on the forum that are just testing to see if someone is reading these things.
Maybe they want to hijack a forum if they find one that is inactive.

If the poster is legit please try to be a little more specific in your questions. There are hundreds of people on this forum that are ready to help a new user get into the world of caving and cave diving.

Regards

CS

[Cave Ranger]

That's very clever of you Ozzy. Sneaking around on the CDF trying to milk us for info on Caves in an effort to replenish you supply of edible Bats. I've always been a big fan but this is just shameless. I do realize that Snowmobile accident has probably left you with a beast of a concussion but this is just awful and unbefitting of YOU the Prince of Darkness. I love wild Bats and I for one will not be a part of this chicanery. I would suggest you send your lovely wife Sharon out to Madame Kai's for some takeout as I understand that she uses only farm raised bats. They are meatier too.
Until then...Rock On!!!!

P.S. You look younger in the avatar pic than you did on MTV. Skinnier too. No one could ever convince me that an all Gin diet isn't healthy.