cave freediving

[Kelly Jessop]

Meh, something tells me they'll look back in a couple decades and just laugh at the root of yet another sport/hobby. Cavediving was suicidal, dangerous, stupid, etc to many people (hell, still is to the large ignorant majority) before it got enough backing, structure, money-loving agencies that charge hundreds for each step in a long progress, gear vendors, etc. To each his own. I'll keep enjoying the journey of both.

You are right some people think cave diving is suicidal because of the negative connotations,but very few realize I am in greater danger of dying by driving to the dive site. Cave diving has gotten more acceptance as an ecotourism activity because training, and gear advances have made the sport safer. Everytime I dive I am at risk of having my exit endangered from silt out, entanglement etc,but since I follow the rules of gas management I have the gas/time to fix these problems. Many of us don't see that as a luxury a free diver in overhead would have the benefit of, and for a few of us we have seen fatalities at sites from free divers. Am I anti-free diving-No. I am going to be very selfish and say that I am anti-anything that can jeopardize access to sites that we have fought hard to gain and maintain. Hence if someone dies while free diving and the owner closes the site to prevent cave free diving accidents, then it has interfered with my access.

[Scubaru]

So you're saying a cavediver dying in the same cave wouldn't possibly have the same repercussions? Trust me guys, I understand both sides of the argument. I understand that a curious and untrained freediver poses a bigger risk to themselves than any of you full-cave guys do. I guess as ARY has suggested, maybe when freediving gets a little bigger, has more structured training, etc, then maybe cavedivers won't be as against it as the majority are. I'll just be damned to give another guy $2-300 for a couple hours of his freediving knowledge and a plastic card so that we can be taken seriously. I don't freedive without a light. (But I also carry a gun into gun-free zones.) I'm still alive to tell of both tales. I have about a 3.5-4min breath hold depending on water temp, current, etc. I've invested a grand or so into my gear (peanuts compared to cave rigs, i know- but not a snorkel set from the local walmart), I always dive with a light (no secondary because I stay in view of the natural light, although I keep a spare in my bag; I use it to admire the beauty around me, not to navigate or explore). I follow a set of rules that keep me safe(r) albeit, they may not be your rules. When I scuba dive, I follow ALL AOW rules. I see a lot of guys on here that are strictly cave seem to follow a lot of rules that are more local and private to the owned cave systems than anything. Like lights. My AOW instructor made us carry two lights the entire duration of our training dives. During "adventure dives" we were even taught how to use several different lights for photography purposes. When I did my "deep dive" in Hilo, HI we were in incredibly silty bottom conditions in 90' of rough coastal water during a tropical depression, no less. Without lights, I wouldn't have been able to read my gauges. Should the instructor have called the dive? Maybe. But I'm glad we didnt. Seeing several 5 foot leatherback and hawksbill turtles hunkered down was one of the coolest memories I'll ever share with my dad. Point is, I'm sick and tired of the negative stigma lights have. The rule was put in place because stupid people made stupid choices with them and cost everyone. If it saves a couple of untrained scuba guys from going into caves each year and ending their lives, then OK, I support that. But when it also costs guys like me that would never penetrate a cave while freediving nor on tanks the ability to film and enjoy natural wonders, then I have a problem with it. When on private property, I understand having to follow their rules. When not though, I'm for doing what I know makes me a safer diver.

[Sly-vester]

If someone is smart enough to bet their life on one flashlight not failing while holding their breath in a submerged cave, I personally feel they should go ahead and let Darwin remove them from the gene pool. Unfortunately it hurts our access, breaks rules, gets reported as a Cave Diving death, and results in frivolous lawsuits because people and institutions didn't do enough to stop you. This then scares property owners who will not let us access their sites. FWIW the two agencies that started certifying cave divers in the 70s are 501c3s(not for profit) and before they did there were 30-40 deaths a year from uncertified/untrained/ill-equipped divers in overhead environments. The same arguments were made then that you are making now. I am a trained cave diver and a trained free diver(PFI). I see nothing wrong with free diving in the daylight area of a spring, as I have done it. I will however not legitimize, condone, or even tolerate free or open water scuba divers going into the cave zone. It's not new they tried it in the seventies, and you see how well it worked.

[Scubaru]

We seem to agree completely. Again, I don't go into caves. I admire their beauty from the outside and for hours on end on youtube, vimeo, and forums like this one. Lol. Soon enough.

[graepaep]

I'm sick and tired of the negative stigma cave divers have. The rules were put in place because stupid people made stupid choices and cost everyone.

Fixed it for ya

[ARY]

Kinda cool vid: https://youtu.be/OnvQggy3Ezw

[ghost]

So you're saying a cavediver dying in the same cave wouldn't possibly have the same repercussions? Trust me guys, I understand both sides of the argument. I understand that a curious and untrained freediver poses a bigger risk to themselves than any of you full-cave guys do. I guess as ARY has suggested, maybe when freediving gets a little bigger, has more structured training, etc, then maybe cavedivers won't be as against it as the majority are. I'll just be damned to give another guy $2-300 for a couple hours of his freediving knowledge and a plastic card so that we can be taken seriously. I don't freedive without a light. (But I also carry a gun into gun-free zones.) I'm still alive to tell of both tales. I have about a 3.5-4min breath hold depending on water temp, current, etc. I've invested a grand or so into my gear (peanuts compared to cave rigs, i know- but not a snorkel set from the local walmart), I always dive with a light (no secondary because I stay in view of the natural light, although I keep a spare in my bag; I use it to admire the beauty around me, not to navigate or explore). I follow a set of rules that keep me safe(r) albeit, they may not be your rules. When I scuba dive, I follow ALL AOW rules. I see a lot of guys on here that are strictly cave seem to follow a lot of rules that are more local and private to the owned cave systems than anything. Like lights. My AOW instructor made us carry two lights the entire duration of our training dives. During "adventure dives" we were even taught how to use several different lights for photography purposes. When I did my "deep dive" in Hilo, HI we were in incredibly silty bottom conditions in 90' of rough coastal water during a tropical depression, no less. Without lights, I wouldn't have been able to read my gauges. Should the instructor have called the dive? Maybe. But I'm glad we didnt. Seeing several 5 foot leatherback and hawksbill turtles hunkered down was one of the coolest memories I'll ever share with my dad. Point is, I'm sick and tired of the negative stigma lights have. The rule was put in place because stupid people made stupid choices with them and cost everyone. If it saves a couple of untrained scuba guys from going into caves each year and ending their lives, then OK, I support that. But when it also costs guys like me that would never penetrate a cave while freediving nor on tanks the ability to film and enjoy natural wonders, then I have a problem with it. When on private property, I understand having to follow their rules. When not though, I'm for doing what I know makes me a safer diver.

I’m glad you know more than all the cave divers (some of whom also freedive) on here, who personally knew some of the guys who wrote the rules in blood.

Idiots like the one in the video are the reason that people like us need to pull bodies out of caverns. You’re just as stupid as the guy who goes to 200 on a single 80 at the nest. Don’t compare yourself to base jumpers - they don’t get mountains closed. Freediving fatalities DO get caves closed. Also, it’s not fair to those of us who do the recoveries - they take their toll...

[FW]

I’m glad you know more than all the cave divers (some of whom also freedive) on here, who personally knew some of the guys who wrote the rules in blood.

Idiots like the one in the video are the reason that people like us need to pull bodies out of caverns. You’re just as stupid as the guy who goes to 200 on a single 80 at the nest. Don’t compare yourself to base jumpers - they don’t get mountains closed. Freediving fatalities DO get caves closed. Also, it’s not fair to those of us who do the recoveries - they take their toll...

The post you are quoting is a couple years old. Scubaru has since taking cavern and intro. Still working towards full cave.

[mrki]

What a stroke, doesn't even carry a redundant pair od lungs.

[OFG-1]

Cave Freediving? If it was good enough for Abe Davis, then it should be good enough for you. And he has an award named for him for doing it!