Who's up to the "Standards Challenge"?

[JohnAd]

I am not a cave instructor, but I am a technical instructor. I give my students a list of all course requirements up front, and we discuss the skills as we plan the dives.

[H2Ocaver]

Same, RB and Tech students go over what is expected at the beginning and then a line for line review at the end. This helps to gauge their confidence as to whether they feel they have the skill down, or not.-Eric

[Pavão]

I am not a cave instructor, but I am a technical instructor. I give my students a list of all course requirements up front, and we discuss the skills as we plan the dives.

Same, RB and Tech students go over what is expected at the beginning and then a line for line review at the end. This helps to gauge their confidence as to whether they feel they have the skill down, or not.-Eric

You guys are talking about course requirements, and it's nice to discuss them with the students, nothing wrong about that, but the students already have them anyways, at least with the 3 different agencies I have taken classes from, I believe the requirements are listed in the course materials and is no secret to the students.

Cerich is asking about course standards.

[mbaker]

I know this thread is asking instructors not students but I must say that over many years and many courses with many different instructors I have never had an instructor show me the "standards". Course requirements yes but never the standards. I would give the names of all the instructors which whom I have certifications from but feel no need to do so.

[cerich]

I know this thread is asking instructors not students but I must say that over many years and many courses with many different instructors I have never had an instructor show me the "standards". Course requirements yes but never the standards. I would give the names of all the instructors which whom I have certifications from but feel no need to do so.

I suspect that is more common than not Mike.

[mbaker]

Is it in the standards that students be shown the standards? If a student requests to see the standards is it mandatory they be given the standards? I know some of my instructors made reference to the standards and one even checked the standards during my course to see that he was staying within the standards given I was trimix trained before cave trained but that is as far as I recall it ever going.

[H2Ocaver]

In the IANTD course material, the specific course standards and the rest of the info- Purpose, Prereq's, Program content, Equip req's, Program Limits and water skills are all on the same outline. Any other standards for ALL classes are on a single page that is also available.

You guys are talking about course requirements, and it's nice to discuss them with the students, nothing wrong about that, but the students already have them anyways, at least with the 3 different agencies I have taken classes from, I believe the requirements are listed in the course materials and is no secret to the students.

Cerich is asking about course standards.

[ppo2_diver]

Let me play devils advocate as I'm not a cave instructor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. Standards are really the minimum that should be taught. So, if a student is shown the standards and the instructor sticks to them, does that mean the class was taught with the minimum in mind? The really great classes I've had, my instructors did show me the standards, but then went into detail about what was expected of me when performing said standards and didn't add anything really new above that.

But on the flip side, if an instructor starts doing things that are not part of the standards, how are students to know if the instructor is going above and beyond to add value or possibly doing something that comes close to crossing a line in regards to safety/standards violations? I.e. they don't know what they don't know.

[cerich]

Let me play devils advocate as I'm not a cave instructor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. Standards are really the minimum that should be taught. So, if a student is shown the standards and the instructor sticks to them, does that mean the class was taught with the minimum in mind? The really great classes I've had, my instructors did show me the standards, but then went into detail about what was expected of me when performing said standards and didn't add anything really new above that.

But on the flip side, if an instructor starts doing things that are not part of the standards, how are students to know if the instructor is going above and beyond to add value or possibly doing something that comes close to crossing a line in regards to safety/standards violations? I.e. they don't know what they don't know.

Good questions.

I would suspect that the standards if shown would need to be explained, and the skills that the instructor intends to teach that exceed them explained as well.

[Sludge]

I'm not a cave instructor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

Doesn't help. It has to be a Holiday Inn Express.