Quadcopter use OK?

[decostanza]

I read the previous thread about the lady that had the unit at Peacock and was curious what the latest position is regarding using these at a site? Are there any new developments that would prohibit their use if low altitudes were maintained and it was not a commercial endeavor?

[victorzamora]

My understanding is that if they're used under AMA rules and regulations they're not considered "drones" regardless of their capabilities. Filming from R/C aircraft is 100% legal as long as you're following a specific set of rules. Public land, under 1500ft, not near any airports (I can't remember the radius, maybe 2mi?), and not filming private property and/or for money.

[JahJahwarrior]

5 miles from an airport, just have to notify. Some call the tower, I also call the place that issues NOTAMs just to be extra safe, but that's also because the airports down here in SoFla are pretty big, and even the small ones are typically very busy.

I think the best is to fly when no one is around, atleast, I don't like bothering people, and the thing sounds like a swarm of frickin bees.

Waiting for Silent Submersion to make a quadcopter.

[mdax]

Peacock is a state park, in Florida that's a no go. You can talk to the park manager/ranger and they can give you permission.

[decostanza]

Thanks everyone for the input...figured some of you are much closer and much more dialed in on the local regs...

[JahJahwarrior]

Mdax, not that you can trust everything on the Internet but, here's someone with a letter from the state saying it's fine...can you send a reference prohibiting it?





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[Kelly Jessop]

Mdax, not that you can trust everything on the Internet but, here's someone with a letter from the state saying it's fine...can you send a reference prohibiting it?

Attachment 12310



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I know some Federal parks have set up rules, especially since a drone that lost control caused some damage at Yellowstone. I haven't heard any word at state parks.

[mdax]

There are a bunch of contradicting online sources for information, however I take the line "You may want to call a particular park...to verify" seriously considering how drones are viewed by the general public. Some people fly their drones like asshats, irritating and swooping close to people. Folks will complain when they see it, even if you fly responsibly, you want to be ahead of that curve of nonsense.

In my experience here in north florida park managers are cool once they learn you are doing it for your own use and ask permission ahead of time.
Like most things, if there is of communication and respect everything goes smoothly. The park rangers around here are really easy to deal with.

I'd HIGHLY recommend you get a flytrex or something similar around these parts, if it goes down in these trees/bush you will never find it without gps coordinates...and possibly need tree climbing equipment to retrieve...

[Kelly Jessop]

Got a ruling from DEP management- they are not allowed due to disturbing visitors and wildlife , unless you have prior permission.

[JahJahwarrior]

And this is so typical of how it goes with state parks.


Ask a person “on the ground” such as person selling entrance or park ranger. Their motivation: cover their own butt, and they are under no obligation to look deeply into the rule books. Also, they have Authority, so once they tell you that you can’t do something, they won’t go back on it at that moment if you present any other proof or arguments.

You ask that type of person “can I fly my remote control aircraft” or “can I use my DPV here” and they will of course say “No! That is against the rules.” So, when dealing with this type of person, it is better to have the rulebook printed out and handy, and to never ask permission, and to stay as far under their radar as you can, even if you aren’t doing anything at all wrong.


Ask a person staffing an informational center, like the image I presented. Their motivation: answer questions through research. They are there to provide facts, and they don’t have Authority, so they just tell you what is and isn’t, and leave it to you to not get yourself into trouble.

You ask that type of person “can I fly my remote control aircraft” and they will of course look at the rule books and tell you what they say. In this case, “There are no rules against it, but there are people ‘on the ground’ that can be difficult, so if you think you will encounter them, you could tell them that even though you aren’t breaking any rules and therefore, are not asking permission but instead, just notifying, if there are any places they would prefer you to fly.”

This type of person knows that there are rules on the books for other things, such as no vandalism, no attacking people, and no bothering wildlife. With a remote controlled model aircraft, you can crash it into things, damaging them. You could hold it in your hands and run the propellers into people. And you could bother wildlife. If you do any of those things, the park Authority would be right to remove you from the park, but not because you were flying, but because you were damaging things, people, or animal’s peace. So, they don’t tell you that you cannot fly, and they expect you to know the other rules that you could break while flying.


Ask the park management. Their motivation: cover their own butt. They are under no obligation to look deeply into the rule books, and if they do, they can just change or re-interpret the rules as they see fit. They do this plenty, sometimes to our benefit, sometimes not. Lets see, just in the recent history: Passes don’t cover diving! Then, We weren’t allowed to charge a fee for diving anyways so now passes cover it and there isn’t any special fee for diving! Multiple changes on what certification levels can dive Madison and Jug Hole. DPV’s not allowed at Manatee. DPV’s are allowed at Manatee. Park hours changed at Peacock.

The park managers also have Authority, so once they make up their minds on what they think the rules, or the interpretation of the rules, should be, they inform the on the ground staff to enforce them, and they don’t tend to go back on them without lots of deliberation. Our people with connections have to go talk to them, and we all beg and beg and hope and pray that they rule on our side. Most of the time, they do, but when they don’t, we as cave divers remind ourselves how lucky we are that they let us use the parks at all, like how cats purr to make themselves feel happy again when they are sad.


Yes, there are rules against bothering wildlife. But, we should be incredibly wary of the park management using this to ban remote controlled aircraft. If I was an animal, I’d be bothered by a porta potti in the parking lot. And all the cars. Sometimes, the cars have loud exhausts, or the radio playing. When divers swim by with their lights, it scares animals, too. Remember last summer when that small alligator was in the basin? Park management could use that same exact ruling to kick us all out because we are bothering the wildlife.

If I’m flying close enough to animals to bother them, then tell me to stop. But, the wide angle lenses are designed to capture large scale images of things. Animals tend to be really close to things that eat quadcopters, such as trees, so I stay away from trees. Far enough away, the noise that does reach the animals in the trees or on the ground is, as I said, similar to the sound of a swarm of bees, or a strong wind in the trees…not any more harmful than our presence in the park.

I do understand that, if we had lots of people out there flying, it could be a mess. Manatee has a carrying capacity to prevent us divers from bothering the fishies, and I would support a carrying capacity for remote controlled model aircraft, so long as it is higher than 0. I’ve got far better places to fly, but I certainly would fly for 40 or 60 minutes a year at a park, in between dives some day when the weather is nice in the fall, for example.

Anyways, Kelly all that is to say, thank you as always for being a liaison between divers and park management. Your work with them is much appreciated. But this response from them on remote controlled model aircraft is silly, and a dangerous road to go down. A much better plan would for them to announce that rules about bothering wildlife will be enforced, urging caution and care for us “enthusiasts”, and asking for our assistance documenting changes in the park year round, producing marketing materials, etc. We aren’t criminals, we aren’t animal-botherers, we love the state parks more than anybody, and we don’t like arbitrary “rulings” that treat us like criminals.


Mdax flytrex is nice, I’m using a simple GPS tracker—give it a call, it texts me a link to a google map of it’s current location. And of course, a GetterBack incase she falls in the water and the magic smoke gets out. But I’ve never needed to use either, and I stay far enough away from quad-magnets that I hope to never have to.