Dpv choice

[LiteHedded]

I don't know anyone who ever had this happen in a cave and I find it very hard to see it happen.
For ocean diving, maybe, diving around wrecks, yes, I see this being a potential problem.
But back to the caves, I don't buy it..
Besides, for dives where the safe return depends on the scooter working, backups are required anyway.

I've had it happen. It happens

[PfcAJ]

I don't know anyone who ever had this happen in a cave and I find it very hard to see it happen.
For ocean diving, maybe, diving around wrecks, yes, I see this being a potential problem.
But back to the caves, I don't buy it..
Besides, for dives where the safe return depends on the scooter working, backups are required anyway.

Hi, I'm AJ, nice to meet you. I've had cave line in the prop once and fishing line in the prop once. Both on cave dives, both rendered the scooter useless. I've had the washer stack screw back out once and was present on a dive where it backed out on a buddy's scooter. In both cases the scooter was totally borked.

Its not a robust design.

[Tegg]

I don't know anyone who ever had this happen in a cave and I find it very hard to see it happen.
For ocean diving, maybe, diving around wrecks, yes, I see this being a potential problem.
But back to the caves, I don't buy it..
Besides, for dives where the safe return depends on the scooter working, backups are required anyway.

I have had cave line get in my prop. I was able to untangle it and remove the line without removing the prop. I see how fishing line can get into the inner workings of the rear end, but in my experience the cave line did not for me. Then again, when it happened, it was my fault and completely preventable by a slight change in where my scooter was running with the lines in that part of the cave. Lesson learned and I have not had it happen since.

[nakatomi]

Hi, I'm AJ, nice to meet you. I've had cave line in the prop once and fishing line in the prop once. Both on cave dives, both rendered the scooter useless. I've had the washer stack screw back out once and was present on a dive where it backed out on a buddy's scooter. In both cases the scooter was totally borked.

Its not a robust design.

Certainly a removable prop would be preferable (if it doesn't cause other drawbacks), but in my opinion the significance, in a cave, is fairly minor. At least in caves where monofilament is unlikely to be found. In a "normal" cave it just should not happen.

To be fair, if you look at the individual failure points each manufacturers design package introduces, you will see weaknesses. None of them are perfect.

[apitkin]

If you have never had a prop entanglement underwater you are lucky, but you cannot rely on luck. It doesn't matter how good you are. It has happened to the best cave divers on the planet.

A removable prop is a significant safety feature.

[cavekrazi]

I've had fishing line in my prop getting into Cannonball. Had to get out to fix it. I've towed a diver out after fixing the line he got caught in his scooter past the Minnow Route on the main line in JB. No big deal but would have been a long swim. It does happen.

[nakatomi]

I've had fishing line in my prop getting into Cannonball. Had to get out to fix it. I've towed a diver out after fixing the line he got caught in his scooter past the Minnow Route on the main line in JB. No big deal but would have been a long swim. It does happen.

Thanks Tom, now I know someone who had this happen in his team
I'm curious, how did your buddy get the line caught in his prop?

[nakatomi]

If you have never had a prop entanglement underwater you are lucky, but you cannot rely on luck. It doesn't matter how good you are. It has happened to the best cave divers on the planet.

A removable prop is a significant safety feature.

Needless to say, I agree that relying on luck is not an option. That's why we carry backups.
I've had stuck triggers, bad charges (all my fault FWIW), and a runaway UV-18 clipped to my butt D-Ring trying to kill me.
Failures do happen, that's why we carry backups (and backup plans for the backups...).

[Jon Nellis]

I think there's a difference in how people dive their scooters. Generally, I try and match the speed with my buddy early on and I don't fiddle with it unless something changes (smaller cave, different payload, lower visibility passage, etc).

Even then, reaching up to the scooter with my left hand isn't something that I really even think about. I move my light from the left hand to my right (driving hand) thumb when I dump my wing and sometimes when I'm adding gas to my suit/wing/ears. So reaching the scooter with my left hand is a really frequent thing over the course of a dive.

That is how most divers operate, since variable speed is rather new. When diving with my buddies on Genesis scooter, we dive whatever speed is appropriate for the passage and speed up and slow down without thinking twice. Other than that, it is the little things that make the difference. While one person is setting a reel, the other is typically in the middle of the flow, adjusting their speed with one hand to hold position near them and provide light with the other hand. While cruising, you can also easily pull up next to your buddy, match his speed and communicate with hand signals and then drop back or pass with a lot less fidgeting.

Reaching up to the handle with the left hand is not an issue, but reaching another 8-10 inches in front of and down from the handle while moving would not be possible unless I ran a really short tow cord.

Really? That's interesting because...

You realize the only reason I'm not diving this scooter, neither is none of my friends is because it doesn't go when you hit the button? Fix the button. Geesh.

I knew I could count on Peter for a reply about the trigger. If your check book is ready, I'll make you or anyone else a trigger that does not silt up.

Just for the record, there is only one dealer with a 1500 and the last time we spoke he said a different trigger would be nice, but it is not a big deal. Of course, Peter would NEVER blow something out proportion.


Regarding line in the prop, some designs are more tolerant than others. I wrapped some fishing line around the prop last week. I just left it in there for 5 or 6 more dives, because even with it wrapped, it didn't affect anything. I've had a couple customers that replaced there old scooters with a Genesis because they wrapped line around there prop, which bent the shaft and caused the seal to leak, resulting in a total flood.


Now for something completely off topic...

Let me give you a peek at the new scooter computer in development. Displays Depth, Time, Power (Watts), Power used (Watthours), Voltage(s) of one or two batteries and a Water Detection Alarm. Wireless transmitter inside the scooter sends the data to the external display without any hull penetration. Large bright OLED display and no more guessing! Just got back from two weeks of alpha testing in Grand Cayman.



Logic Dive Gear - The leader in innovation

[cavekrazi]

It was Eric More. 4 of us were scootering back from the Middle Ground jump in the back there at JB. Eric is slick with a scooter, but he said the line just jumped into his prop when he got close to it. Actually, the line was probably slack from someone snagging it before he came to it. He was the first guy to it and it just got sucked in. We cut and fixed the main line and he clipped off his scooter and I got to practice towing him out. We all were pretty used to towing people out on the early scooters (I know of 5 Makos that exploded in Roubidoux, and Gavins always needed some tweaking) so no big deal. We used the "grab the crotch strap, put your head down, and hold on for dear life" method. Works pretty good. Like I said before, 4 Gavins are a pretty safe bet. Actually, I think I remember that there was an issue with the motor seal on that scooter after it ate the line. I think that also had to be serviced. Not doing that underwater.