New cave accident?

[solocavediver]

Quoting Jax: "The real problem is that people believe there IS a causality behind everything."

Well, yes, it is in a sense a "problem" that the human race persists in investigating science, religion, morality, philosophy, sociology etc. as if they REALLY want answers. As if they REALLY believe in causality, so that answers are out there somewhere. It might be more "convenient" - less "problematic" - for our political masters if humans were more fatalistic; and indeed they are more fatalistic if you move out of western civilization into (say) India and its traditional beliefs or (say) Africa and its traditional beliefs. Historically, the conviction in the West that the answers were out there somewhere came from the Christian conviction that there's a God who made the whole system with a purpose. Nowadays, the Christian faith may have partly disappeared but the conviction that answers are out there somewhere still lingers.... for the time being, at any rate.

Meanwhile, though the possibilities "God's will," or "just your time," or "fate." (as discussed by skip) are not excluded a priori, we sort of expect something a bit more prosy, a bit more specific, when looking for reasons behind this sad incident. If it's true that he had a heart attack underwater, there's a question I'd like to know the answer to: was he on a rebreather? Rumours persist that rebreathers are unhealthily correlated with heart attacks in otherwise healthy individuals. I'd like to know if this is a case in point. If so, I'd like to know the causality involved with rebreathers.... if there is one.

All the best,

Charles.

[FW]

Thanks, FW. Well done. Except you moved my post, which I think more properly belongs here, so I moved it back.

Yep, you are right, I got in a hurry moving posts.

This is my last post in the Accident Analysis thread:

I am locking this thread, until actual information is available.

ALL of us want to know why any cave diver dies, but wild speculation, and complaints about how fast the information become available only slow down the process.

[rddvet]

Yep, you are right, I got in a hurry moving posts.

This is my last post in the Accident Analysis thread:

Maybe it's not the right spot to post this, but to be honest I don't see where Litehedded's questions were in anyway creating a problem. I think he was asking if the buddy had any insight as to why the assumption was made as to the cause. I'm trying to be vague to not get in trouble, but I really don't get what was so wrong that the thread had to be locked, considering it was in the private section of the forum. He was in no way speculating or commenting, just asking if there were facts that led to the currently assumed diagnosis.

[FW]

Maybe it's not the right spot to post this, but to be honest I don't see where Litehedded's questions were in anyway creating a problem. I think he was asking if the buddy had any insight as to why the assumption was made as to the cause. I'm trying to be vague to not get in trouble, but I really don't get what was so wrong that the thread had to be locked, considering it was in the private section of the forum. He was in no way speculating or commenting, just asking if there were facts that led to the currently assumed diagnosis.

It isn't in the private section, it is visible to everyone that is a forum member. Mostly it is because I had just posted for everyone to wait for the ME's report. A lot of forum members were Jack's friends. His wife is also a member.

To answer the main question several are asking, the buddy surfaced saying Jack had a heart attack. That is only the opinion of a cavediver who isn't a doctor. He may well be correct, but we won't know until we get the ME's report back. It could take time, and at this point we ALL have to be patient.

[tursiops]

It isn't in the private section, it is visible to everyone that is a forum member. Mostly it is because I had just posted for everyone to wait for the ME's report. A lot of forum members were Jack's friends. His wife is also a member.

To answer the main question several are asking, the buddy surfaced saying Jack had a heart attack. That is only the opinion of a cavediver who isn't a doctor. He may well be correct, but we won't know until we get the ME's report back. It could take time, and at this point we ALL have to be patient.

Don't all the ME reports just say drowning? I'm not trying to be cute, but I can't think of one that actually gave the trigger for the drowning. In fact, I'm having trouble thinking of many instances where the ME report is actually seen.

[FW]

Don't all the ME reports just say drowning? I'm not trying to be cute, but I can't think of one that actually gave the trigger for the drowning. In fact, I'm having trouble thinking of many instances where the ME report is actually seen.

They may list drowning, but they will also note things like indicators of MI.

[adam_Hughes]

......there's a question I'd like to know the answer to........I'd like to know if......

If the first thing you feel compelled to do upon learning that a fellow cave diver dies, or anyone for that matter, is to openly determine how it will effect you, then perhaps one needs to reevaluate the overall-scheme-of-things. While accident analysis undoubtedly assists in the future of cave diving, bear in mind that whatever benefit gained is minuscule compared to the much larger expense paid by others; friends and family.


While it may feel like you are just casually inquiring because of naturally curiosity, It really just makes you look like a self centered douche. Should one feel so overly compelled to know EXACTLY what happen, go down to the memorial this Friday. I'm sure asking extremely sensitive question's to the only ones who know (friends and family) will go over just fine.


Our insight into this will be dependent on the openness of those involved. Perhaps to them, Jack was more than just another one of your statistics. Like Forrest said, it's possible that some might slow down the process of accident analysis because those coming here to share may be put off by the comments of others. When the details start coming out, which I'm sure they eventually will, keep in mind you are owed nothing by those providing it.

[FW]

If the first thing you feel compelled to do upon learning that a fellow cave diver dies, or anyone for that matter, is to openly determine how it will effect you, then perhaps one needs to reevaluate the overall-scheme-of-things. While accident analysis undoubtedly assists in the future of cave diving, bear in mind that whatever benefit gained is minuscule compared to the much larger expense paid by others; friends and family.


While it may feel like you are just casually inquiring because of naturally curiosity, It really just makes you look like a self centered douche. Should one feel so overly compelled to know EXACTLY what happen, go down to the memorial this Friday. I'm sure asking extremely sensitive question's to the only ones who know (friends and family) will go over just fine.


Our insight into this will be dependent on the openness of those involved. Perhaps to them, Jack was more than just another one of your statistics. Like Forrest said, it's possible that some might slow down the process of accident analysis because those coming here to share may be put off by the comments of others. When the details start coming out, which I'm sure they eventually will, keep in mind you are owed nothing by those providing it.

Well said

[PfcAJ]

Interesting how no one had a problem asking questions like this when a good friend of mine died cave diving. Where were all the white knights then?

[LiteHedded]

if threads are just going to be locked when people try to analyze an accident it seems the accident analysis forum may just as well be removed. or make it opt in.
this wont be the last time a moderator is a friend of the deceased i'm sure.