New cave accident?

[jclem77]

Let's just wait for the accident analysis.

[tursiops]

Let's just wait for the accident analysis.

That is typically at least a very long wait, if not forever.
It is a nice idea, in principle.

[Rustykfd]

Let's just wait for the accident analysis.

My hair is already grey.......I don't have that long to wait.

[Jax]

http://www.cavediver.net/forum/showt...dent-at-Ginnie

[jj1987]

Let's just wait for the accident analysis.

Now that sheck has given us the five rules we no longer analyze accidents.

[adam_Hughes]

Now that sheck has given us the five rules we no longer analyze accidents.

And just because you dive in caves doesn't mean you are entitled to the information. Accident analysis is a by-product of someones death, not the result of it. Prior to making any demands, or providing any self-righteous insight into someones passing, the very first thing we should be concerned with is for those who were personally effected by it. We all want answers, including those outside of the cave diving community. However, that step of the process is not here yet, and will be forthcoming when it's more appropriate.

In the mean time, we should all take time to personally reflect on why we are so demanding of this information. The following is an excerpt of article by Robert Osborne that offers an explanation regarding why we are so eager to "know" rather than making our priority be for those whom are grieving:

" I spent a lot of time on those forums....I also spent a lot of time thinking about why people (would indulged in) this kind of feeding frenzy related to extreme diving.... what motivates this behaviour?

My first thought is that maybe this behaviour is caused by fear. There is no question that cave diving is a very dangerous activity. But if you can attribute an accident to someone's stupidity or sloppiness, perhaps you can convince yourself that you would never make that same mistake. It's a form of finding immunity because of other people's supposed stupidity. Find a flaw in someone who's just died in an accident and you can tell yourself that you don't have that flaw so your chances at dying are substantially reduced.

My second thought is people might behave this way because it's human nature. We all live with a bit of an immortality myth, particularly when we're very young. If we stop and think about it, we understand that death is inevitable. Yet most of us have some notion that though it applies to us, it's nothing that we're going to have to deal with until some vague time in the future. Perhaps being reminded that death is ever present evokes a hostile reaction."

My thoughts are with the family and friends of the deceased, and those who were tasked with the recovery. I wish you all the strength needed to help you through this upcoming grieving process.

[Garth]

I don't have any specific info on this incident as I didn't know him but I was really impressed and touched by his LinkedIn account profile. He sounded like a great guy and its sad that this occurred.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jumpinjackgregory

Will be remembering Jack today.




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[Danseur]

Well put and good quote, Adam. Thank you.

[tursiops]

And just because you dive in caves doesn't mean you are entitled to the information. Accident analysis is a by-product of someones death, not the result of it. Prior to making any demands, or providing any self-righteous insight into someones passing, the very first thing we should be concerned with is for those who were personally effected by it. We all want answers, including those outside of the cave diving community. However, that step of the process is not here yet, and will be forthcoming when it's more appropriate.

In the mean time, we should all take time to personally reflect on why we are so demanding of this information. The following is an excerpt of article by Robert Osborne that offers an explanation regarding why we are so eager to "know" rather than making our priority be for those whom are grieving:

" I spent a lot of time on those forums....I also spent a lot of time thinking about why people (would indulged in) this kind of feeding frenzy related to extreme diving.... what motivates this behaviour?

My first thought is that maybe this behaviour is caused by fear. There is no question that cave diving is a very dangerous activity. But if you can attribute an accident to someone's stupidity or sloppiness, perhaps you can convince yourself that you would never make that same mistake. It's a form of finding immunity because of other people's supposed stupidity. Find a flaw in someone who's just died in an accident and you can tell yourself that you don't have that flaw so your chances at dying are substantially reduced.

My second thought is people might behave this way because it's human nature. We all live with a bit of an immortality myth, particularly when we're very young. If we stop and think about it, we understand that death is inevitable. Yet most of us have some notion that though it applies to us, it's nothing that we're going to have to deal with until some vague time in the future. Perhaps being reminded that death is ever present evokes a hostile reaction."

My thoughts are with the family and friends of the deceased, and those who were tasked with the recovery. I wish you all the strength needed to help you through this upcoming grieving process.

You've put this into an either-or scenario....either you do accident analysis, or you grieve. That is a false dichotomy.
We can grieve, we can support the family, and we should.
But we also must learn from each and every incident, so as not to repeat any errors.
If it was a heart attack, so be it. If it was a heart attack caused by stress on the dive, what was that stress? Will we see it too?
Any death is too many...but a death from which we do not learn is a tragedy compounded.

[Danseur]

Yeah, but do we need to tear it apart before he's even cold?

Time and a place, right?