Better Cave Maps

[MORGAN]

The dives they did back then with the equipment they had is amazing to me.

Yup - just that they did a lot of those dives on air and decompressed on air using the Navy tables is impressive.

Sometimes for fun I'll take a dive I did on nitrox or trimix with O2 deco and my Petrel, and run the numbers for the same dive on air & Navy tables. A nothing out of the ordinary dive becomes a much more significant undertaking. Not to mention all of the other advances in equipment that we enjoy now.

Mike

[mdax]

I used to think mapping caves would be cool, so I started mapping river caves.
I'm pretty sure I'm just going to delete the data.
Sharing a cave is no where near as cool and thinking you are the first one.
No lines, no maps. That's my preference.

[fsardone]

As a small team in Europe, we have an on-going project to re-map a cave.

....

The new map : https://www.dropbox.com/s/yfo7o0qxk3..._v1.1.pdf?dl=0

Hello Steve,
great map!
I did plot the entry pool as indicated in your map
Headpool location :44.889348 N 1.618965 W 104m ASL
and I found a little mistake. The longitude should read East and not West.
You brits having both East and West should be the ones getting it right all the times

Cheers

Fabio

[Steve Clark]

Hello Steve,
great map!
I did plot the entry pool as indicated in your map
Headpool location :44.889348 N 1.618965 W 104m ASL
and I found a little mistake. The longitude should read East and not West.
You brits having both East and West should be the ones getting it right all the times

Cheers

Fabio

Good man!

The map is going to the printers tomorrow for a short run. I'll sort that out

Steve

[rddvet]

Hello Steve,
great map!
I did plot the entry pool as indicated in your map
Headpool location :44.889348 N 1.618965 W 104m ASL
and I found a little mistake. The longitude should read East and not West.
You brits having both East and West should be the ones getting it right all the times

Cheers

Fabio

Funny, when we went to St George's for the first time we were told its right by the trash bins, it's ridiculously obvious. We drove around the damn trash bins for about 45 minutes. When we found it we felt stupid. We were actually given two separate coordinates and told neither were highly accurate, just look for the bins.

I'm writing these in my log book now

[Steve Clark]

Often, the coordinates in France are 'adjusted' such that the sat nav gets you to the right place, rather than the precise location of the cave. The classic example is cunhac (Ressel 2), where the cave is in the middle of the river. The closest road is 300ft higher up the cliff and miles away by road. The coordinates to the end of the road near the parking are much more useful.

[Steve Clark]

Fabio,

Thanks for your typo spot.

We've updated the survey to correct the E/W error in the headpool lat/long and also changed the scale to 1:1000 to allow more practical plotting (now approx 18" high x 6ft long).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ytx8z3bris...-1000_v1.2.pdf

Steve

[speleocrone]

Interesting views guys. In dry caving these days the attitude is that what you explore, you survey. If you don't survey it, and publish the map for all ( or at least all in your club or organisation) to see, then you don't get credit for discovery in the caving world.
At least in Australia that is the attitude, and I am pretty sure most places in the world see it the same way. All the international expeditions I hear about have this position. Cave diving exploration in Australia is the same. Map what you discover (if possible) and at least publish the map within your organisation.

I see surveying, and map production, as part of exploration (wherever possible). Publication or availability of those maps is a little more complicated, I can see, in some places. Particularly for places like Florida with huge numbers of potental dive visits to the mapped caves. However, not having maps available of already heavily visited caves I find a bit bizarre. With the truckloads of divers visiting these popular caves, aren't any of them interested in project cave diving, like surveying and producing maps?

Resurveying caves/cave dives that have old, poor surveys (Like Steve and crew have done so well), or surveying long visited caves/dives that never got surveyed back in the day is a recognised activity here. The maps get published at club level, and/ or part of national association level, although not necessarliy for general public availability. This is all as part of ones "hobby", by volunteers, and not for payment. I heard an interesting description a few years back of an attitude to volunteering called "professional amateur". This includes volunteer firefighters, search and rescue, and many other areas. You try to be as skilled and professional in your "hobby" as you can. For no financial gain, just personal satisfaction. I put caving & cave diving into that category for myself. Many longterm participants here do too. So, surveying as well as you can in the situation, and producing a map, of at least new discoveries, is part of that attitude. Replacing damaged permanent line would be another.

I will sit back now and wait to be flamed.

[Aotus]

Professional amateur. I like that.

[Webmaster]

Some have the attitude of survey as you go, some don't. It is not unknown for people to be invited on a survey project, only to find later that the invitees scooped thousands of feet of virgin cave. This doesn't win you any popularity contests. It's happened to us more than once.

Also, surveying is probably THE best tool to find more cave. Even in well known systems. You poke into everything, so you're looking at the cave much more thoroughly than you would if you were just blasting down the passage. Also, as the working map develops it not only acts as a way to record leads but you can see patterns emerge that often tell you where there should be more cave.

Usually working maps don't get published because you are spending a great deal of time and effort, and deliberately leaving some very enticing leads for later in favor of surveying other passage. It helps in a project cave to leave yourself some nice parts to survey. Part of the reward is often being able to be first in a new passage, but there are those that want that feeling without putting in the work.

So, there are secrets. Both things that are underway, and things that may never get published due to land owner concerns or other issues.

I've been lucky to see a nice bit of virgin cave, both above and below water. But it's because we put the time in looking at maps, studying the geology, driving around and talking to people, working on digs (sometimes for years) and bolt climbs that end up going nowhere, etc... just to get that one gem that opens up and invites you in. Sometimes it's just not knowing any better. I've walked right into virgin passage in a well known cave because I decided to wade across a shallow pool to see what was there, 15' away from where hundreds of people had stood.