Solo diving at Peacock

[Jim Wyatt]

Who owns Peacock?

The state of Florida owns Peacock and they have asked us to obey their rule of no solo diving.

If we want to change that rule we should not try to change it by breaking it.

[Kelly Jessop]

Never know if he had a buddy he would have made it out safely or would it have been TWO death. The buddy system didn't work for the two that died in Madison a few years back.


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Knowing the details of this case,I think a couple stages would not have gotten this team out alive. There were a lot of elements that went wrong. Look at the case of the intro diver that died at Peacock within the last couple years,they had a buddy too,but the elements involved lead to the fatality,not just having a buddy,or lack of. I can recall quite a few incidents where having a buddy prevented an accident,so it became and undocumented incident,conversely there are some solo diving accidents. It is very difficult to lump things into categories,because each accident has its own root cause,and it was easier to identify when we had real accident analysis. Diving across all state parks require a buddy,even open water only diving sites,so it would be hard to say a solo diving accident at Peacock caused this rule. The real foundation of this rule goes back to entry level scuba training that supports the buddy system. But,for those that want to challenge this rule in state parks,in a previous post I gave you the parties to contact.

[Squirrel Girl]

Who owns Peacock?

The residents of Florida own the State Park, but it is *managed* by the Florida Division of Recreation and Parks. You can just go around and disagree with their management rules and do whatever the heck you want. If they close an area to boats to protect manatees, you can't just go out with your boat and run over manatees because, by golly, you're a resident of Florida and Floridians own the park.

Totally agree with Jim. Breaking rules is bad and gives cave divers a bad rep. If a rule/law, however well intended it might have been, needs changing, I'm all for changing it. But don't just ignore it. The ramifications can be very bad.

[JCGoodwin]

I have no dog in this fight been pleased with service at state parks.
What I do have is a loved local site that has become a RULE RIDDEN to the point of extinction.
Its a local quarry in my area where people are banned when need be, and rules are the rules.
No joke they file TRESPASSING charges if you are diving without a plan, "signed release for diving the deep side".
Another quarry with a rock crusher in it you have to sign a release and they hold your card just to go in there.

I guess my point is Rules are just a simple result of a attraction or site being open.
I have had issues with them but alas it is what it is!
I love these sites they are where I enjoy so I follow the rules.
I do LOVE solo diving but it is getting harder to find and keep sites to dive this way.

The last thing I want to do is loose a dive site over me or my regard for their rules.
I have had dialog with both of the afore mentioned properties and explained my position and they did theirs.
I still dive them both, they know I will not push them even if I do not agree.
I have been at Peacock and the last ones out very close to the deadline.
On those occasions if the Ranger is there I always make it a point to apologize and be prompt.

As a result I try to do my dives earlier, and look into other locations for later dives.
I understand both sides of the issue and wish it was different but the current status of dive sites I just try to do all I can to follow the rules.
I am always looking for more cave and sites to dive.
Sometimes it opens up new ruleless territory but with it assumed risk to landowner and myself!

JCG

[AB8CD]

I guess this discussion of rules and enforcement issues is why I am most attracted to private caves in Mexico where the Darwinian model is imposed.

I have had both wonderful and nightmarish experiences here in West Michigan with State Park employees. In both cases it may have had something in to do with me inadvertently pushing buttons (or just reminding them of someone they didn't like.)


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[Kelly Jessop]

The irony is that state parks want to increase access and reduce rules. For example, Madison and Jug Hole had no cavern diving rules,but I contacted the park managers and worked to get that changed. There are other things that they are considering which will increase access and reduce rules. But,some rules are hard and fast across state parks and have to be changed at the higher levels,for example solo diving,and changing closing time. I am not against changing rules,because I have successfully have had good dialog with state park officials,which has had a positive result. The NFSA has asked about changing the closing times,and a lot of this tied to budget and staffing. As far as solo diving,this is one that will require a concerted effort and a lot of time to change,something I don't have the luxury doing.

[bullfrog]

Worth mentioning that the "No Solo Diving" rule is a direct result of a solo diver death (non-medical) at Peacock. He even had a 80ft "buddy bottle" with him that was sucked dry.

getting old and don't remember that. Could you post a link to the old thread about that?

[Sludge]

The residents of Florida own the State Park

Exactly.

And I never said we should break the rules. I said I choose to not dive Peacock or Manatee or Madison Blue because I don't like the rules they set. Rules that, by the way, were not written by cave divers.

In case you want to know which rules I think are retarded, how about not being able to begin a dive at Peacock after 3pm, even in the summer when the park closes at 8:30? Utter stupidity. How about Manatee, which has a maximum number of divers allowed per day? What if the max number arrives at 8am and dives until noon, and then everybody goes home? Nobody else is allowed in until tomorrow. No scootering at Madison Blue? And from time to time they say no Cavern divers? I realize that with the low salaries they're not getting Einsteins, but how about giving new rangers a one-hour primer on cave diving certifications? You know, cave diving it its main draw...

[Kelly Jessop]

How about Manatee, which has a maximum number of divers allowed per day? What if the max number arrives at 8am and dives until noon, and then everybody goes home? Nobody else is allowed in until tomorrow. ...

I can understand how this can become frustrating,but all state parks have a carrying capacity,just some reach it faster than others. You ever look at Ichetucknee during the summer? They have a line of cars 1/4 mile long with tubers at 7am,because they will hit their quota 30minutes after they open the gate. But expand you view to other parks like Yosemite and Yellowstone that have carrying capacities,and without reservations you won't get in because of popularity. Parks have a mission to provide recreational access but protect the resource as well. So where I too feel the pain of going to Manatee and being told that I can't dive,but when I do I see a cave in very good shape. Conversely lets look at two caves that have unrestricted access,one that is your favorite. They continue to show extreme wear and tear,and the damage gets worse. The one thing about carrying capacities is that if there isn't evidence of wear and tear the number can be changed to accommodate more people,but the converse is true.

[adam_Hughes]

getting old and don't remember that. Could you post a link to the old thread about that?

See Underwater Speleology, November/December 1990 - P. 3 "Accident Closes Peacock Springs to Solo Cave Diving"

Here is a picture of the incident report: NSS News 1990-v048-013: AMERICAN CAVING ACCIDENTS 1990