Cave Access Under Assault

[Kelly Jessop]

To win the media over requires an active outreach PR campaign with them, where the good works, safety & training, and other positive stories are properly press released and followed up on.

Again, just offering an outside the Florida cave community perspective...

Dan

Good point Dan. I wish the media liked to discuss the positives,but it really doesn't sell copy. When there was an effort underway to open Wakulla springs and there was a public meeting scheduled,the media was very myopic in their reporting. Hoping that just once they would be unbiased in their reporting I emailed data on the safety and benefits of cave diving to their local economy,of course I was ignored. When I even sent an letter to the editor to provide a alternate view,it was ignored. The lyrics to the song by Don Henley,"Dirty Laundry",sure ring true.

[Squirrel Girl]

I think cave diving is more dangerous than other sports. I only know one guy, personally, who has died while cycling, and I've heard of a few others. I know quite a few people who died cave diving. (Quite a few being relative--I'd have to think exactly how many--more than a handful, less than a dozen). i've heard of quite a few more.

Still, skiing is a somewhat comparable sport in terms of danger. No analogy is perfect, but it's not bad.

I am not so reactionary as to avoid all means to protect citizens. But I am one to analyze the costs and benefits. The father knew he wasn't supposed to dive there. He went way out of his way to go there. There was no accidental, "oh, doesn't that look like a pretty pond to dive in." The father went there deliberately. How much expenditure must society go through to protect people from their egos? I would argue that that expenditure would be better put--and more effective--elsewhere. I hope that the grandfather will accept that the death of his son and grandson will help some other man think twice before doing something way beyond his training. That education is the way to find something good to come from a terrible tragedy, doubly bad because it happened on Christmas Day.

MA said it well. The grandfather has evolved his thinking. I know that tragedy can make people leap to wrong conclusions. My heart goes out to him.

[Superlyte27]

I think cave diving is more dangerous than other sports. I only know one guy, personally, who has died while cycling, and I've heard of a few others. I know quite a few people who died cave diving. (Quite a few being relative--I'd have to think exactly how many--more than a handful, less than a dozen). i've heard of quite a few more.

That probably depends very much on where you live. I lived in the mountains of NY and NJ. I know several skiiers that died. I know many many mountain bikers who've died. I now live near Deland, FL. I've been told there's more sky diving deaths there than anywhere else in the nation. I used to live near some pretty serious white water rafting... people died. I know 5 or so people who died in Florida over the last few years sport fishing.

My two cents is worth very little. Maybe about 2 cents. But, I don't think cave diving is dangerous at all with proper training, proper gear, proper state of mind, and a measure of common sense.

[skip]

Sadly... I don't think the NACD or the CDS are bothering themselves with ANY efforts to protect cave diving access. They are to busy fighting amongst themselves and focused on making new training books...

I have not seen any public statements of the BoD for either cave diving organization talking about their efforts to get involved with the Eagles Nest incident and speak with the same people that the father is speaking to in order to offer education and another viewpoint. I think both organizations are on their way out as useful voices for cave divers. Hopefully we can all piece something together and form a real organization who is truly there to support us in times like this.

Jeff Bauer, President of NACD, was interviewed on TV soon after the incident. I think he did exactly what you say no BoD has done. It may have only been one instance, but it was timely, on the mark, and was quite clear about the need for training and how the lack of training was the real killer here. So I think the NACD was on the ball with this one. They also were on the forums with links to their free safe caving diving video, encouraging everyone to share with dive shops, etc.

skip

[JohnAd]

That probably depends very much on where you live. I lived in the mountains of NY and NJ. I know several skiiers that died. I know many many mountain bikers who've died. I now live near Deland, FL. I've been told there's more sky diving deaths there than anywhere else in the nation. I used to live near some pretty serious white water rafting... people died. I know 5 or so people who died in Florida over the last few years sport fishing.

One's knowledge of such incidents does depend upon where you live and the degree to which you are attuned to what is happening in that activity. If you live in cave country or participate in forums like this one, you will know a lot about cave diving incidents. I live in Boulder, Colorado. We have some of the best skiing in the world nearby. We have superb rock climbing sites. Professional cyclists, including the first American Olympic medalists, train here. We don't have a cave anywhere nearby, and not many people around here have any idea about people dying in caves. But we are all very aware of the deaths associated with skiing (especially back country avalanche deaths), rock climbing, and cycling. Those numbers in our area alone are not unsubstantial. I ride a bicycle with some frequency, and I think it is much more dangerous than diving a cave with proper training. I was laid up for half of last year with my bicycle injuries after a teenager racing his friends home on a bike path took a blind turn on the inside lane and ran into me. I was quite literally lucky to survive that crash.

[Omisson]

Good point Dan. I wish the media liked to discuss the positives,but it really doesn't sell copy. When there was an effort underway to open Wakulla springs and there was a public meeting scheduled,the media was very myopic in their reporting. Hoping that just once they would be unbiased in their reporting I emailed data on the safety and benefits of cave diving to their local economy,of course I was ignored. When I even sent an letter to the editor to provide a alternate view,it was ignored. The lyrics to the song by Don Henley,"Dirty Laundry",sure ring true.

Definitely understand this- media bias is pretty routine. The idea is to cultivate them BEFORE incidents and controversy - winning them over before the battles with a barrage of positive pieces.

They love Eco stuff, community events, and education. Press releases and invitations to attend those events and press releases on them highlighting environmental stuff, clean ups, education etc. goes a long way in advance of controversy to moderate or even dissipate the articles tenor.

[Ken Hill]

I've posted this before. In the effort to re-open Eagles Nest many people were involved. FF&W assumed the management of the land when it was given them to manage as a result of a dissolution of an estate and IIRC a land trust. I, along with Larry Green, Mike Poucher, JJ, Tom Mount, John Jones prepared a binder displaying certification cards from the represented agencies for cave and gas diving that would be the criteria to issue a permit to dive the Nest. The effort was requested then later declined by the state after a review by their management and lawyers. Diving was permitted after the state's biologist gave approval. Signs as to the degree of training and hazards of diving Eagles Nest were erected.

Prior to the FF&W management the Nest was on private property and managed by a hunting club. The safety record since FF&W tenure at the Nest is 100% when adherence to the rules of safe cave and gas diving have been followed. FF&W has absorbed DEP law enforcement responsibilities and has done a terrific job with the added jurisdiction and responsibility, which by the way covers law enforcement duties at the gated and managed state parks where C-cards are required and yet trained and untrained fatalities occur. All diving occurs in an alien environment no matter how managed.

[ScubaGypsy]

http://tbo.com/news/underwater-caves...ices-20140119/

Did anyone else notice the deterioration of the Eagles Nest warning sign in the article? Attached are copies of the picture shown in the article and a picture of the same sign in September 2011.

The FF&W logo is now gone. Is this recent? Might this be due to vandalism at the site or possibly just age? Have there been other known issues of vandalism at the site?

[speleodiver]

When there was an effort underway to open Wakulla springs and there was a public meeting scheduled,the media was very myopic in their reporting. Hoping that just once they would be unbiased in their reporting I emailed data on the safety and benefits of cave diving to their local economy,of course I was ignored. When I even sent an letter to the editor to provide a alternate view,it was ignored. The lyrics to the song by Don Henley,"Dirty Laundry",sure ring true.

Kelly,

I have found out why you were ignored. It seems Wakulla injects over 10 million a year into the local economy of Wakulla County so the measly few bucks (as they refer to it) cave divers would bring is of no great interest to them. Of course if one looks at the management plan for Wakulla Springs, it isnt hard to see there really isnt that much money. On one hand they say they have plenty but on the other projects within the management plan are not completed or the park needs volunteers to build them. I'm confused as to where all the facilities are or better yet where all this money the park director keeps speaking of.

[PsychDiver]

I've read that for every 10 - 20 people that successfully summit Everest, one dies (Google Everest Death Rate). By those standards, Eagles Nest, the "Everest of cave diving" is a baby's crib. Not one I'm about to go into, mind you, and I've been cave diving for over a year, and consider the Nest at least a year away.

These last two, well, they knew enough to kit themselves out in cave gear, they knew enough to find the place, so they assuredly knew that diving caves untrained is dangerous, then they walked by the signs that said "continue and you'll die unless you're properly trained", and jumped in the water. How many barriers do you put in place to keep idiots from killing themselves and their kinfolk? I don't want it closed because I want to dive it when I'm ready. You can't fault granddad for being irrational; we can just hope no budding politico takes this on as a potential high-PR topic, and I don't think any will; it's just not high profile enough. The news will fade and the next thing will come along; we're about due for another teacher sleeping with a student.