Cave Access Under Assault

[Real1628]

Since the tragic Christmas Day deaths at Eagle's Nest the media has been running a constant barrage of articles attacking cave access. This one came up this morning and I wanted everyone to be aware.http://tbo.com/news/underwater-caves...ices-20140119/

[rddvet]

That article pisses me off. I agree that if a check in procedure is whats needed to keep the site open to certified divers then thats better than ot being closed. But what gets my ass hot is the grandfather saying that something ahould be done to prevent further fatalities. A fence or check in procesure doesnt fix poor common sense. That guy was going to kill his kid somewhere eventually. Its a classic example of passing the blame that happens so much in our society. Its never the idiots fault. Its the system that didnt protect the idiot. It makes about as much sense as those idiots that sue the emt or good samaritan when they broke their ribs during chest compressions that saved their worthless lives.


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[Real1628]

I agree! There's always somebody out there who wants to "protect" us and take away our freedom in the process. They use cases like this to do it so if there was ever a time to get involved in cave related issues this may be it.

[Omisson]

The article didn't "piss me off" it presented a fairly well balanced review of the facts, assembled good sources, and made reasonable comparisons (mountain climbing).

It did not act pro or con, and reasonably inferred that ultimately it was about responsibility.

It also didn't repeat or infer closure- or regulation beyond a ranger checking for cave certification cards- nothing unreasonable there on state owned land.

Seems to me a fairly positive piece.

[spelodiver]

And then instructor Richards comments about speeding through training. This after taking a diver who admitted he quickly did 100 cave dives so he could take a mix class and dive the Nest.


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[Real1628]

Here's the problem I have with this article and others like it: They foment a "they should do something about that " herd reaction from a group of people who have little or no relevant knowledge and probably very little personal interest other than what is inspired by the article. Statistics tell us that 2% of the people in the world SCUBA dive and only 2% of those cave dive. That leaves a LOT of people in the world who know absolutely nothing about cave diving. Chances are neither the writer, the legislator, or almost all of the readers know anything about cave diving. The article is distributed to the masses and now we get a bunch of voters who don't understand cave diving trying to "do something about that." Cave diving hstory is rife with examples of this and if we want to protect our sport we must be vigilant and proactive.

[JohnAd]

I think it is a pretty good article myself. It is very balanced, and it does a nice job comparing it to rock climbing.

[rddvet]

The article didn't "piss me off" it presented a fairly well balanced review of the facts, assembled good sources, and made reasonable comparisons (mountain climbing).

It did not act pro or con, and reasonably inferred that ultimately it was about responsibility.

It also didn't repeat or infer closure- or regulation beyond a ranger checking for cave certification cards- nothing unreasonable there on state owned land.

Seems to me a fairly positive piece.

The article itself didnt piss me off. I guess my annoyed response came off wrong. The reported did a great job. Reading the stupidity of the grandfather in the article pissed me off.


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[MichaelAngelo]

Doesn't piss me off, concerned yes, but the article is about one old guy in grief wanting it closed. In retrospect, it's an improvement, two weeks ago same old man wanted the cave closed because its dangerous and killed his son and grandson. Now he wants it closed because there's nobody checking cards to prevent uncertified divers from diving. Maybe in another two weeks he will want it closed because it's not in Braille and that's way his deaf blind and dumb son died there. Educating the public is going to work better then any knee jerk reaction. If everyone posts on there Facebook Twitter and other sol social media (as most of us have been doing) the real reason these too are dead will out weight the calls for closure by one old man. Maybe in a few years he'll admit what the rest of the world know, that they died because of an arrogant ass who thought he didn't need training and that nothing was going to prevent him from killing himself.

[Gypsy Diver]

Dear Mr. Chester Spivey Jr.,

Let me start by expressing my deepest sympathy for the loss of your son and grandson. I understand how upsetting it is to lose a loved one. I hope your days of sorrow over this tragedy will lessen with time.
My name is Kevin Schryver and I am a cave diver with training through the "Normoxic Level" of cave training, which means I am certified to use levels of oxygen below 21% down to 16%, not wanting to get technical due to space and time it boils down to a "Partial Pressure" Dive situation. Someday my hope is to finish this certification to Full TriMix, meaning I will be using Oxygen Levels below 21% down to (if I understand correctly) 8%, and again due to the technical side of the training I won't go into detail.
My point in telling you this is it took me a very long time to get to this point with cave diving. I took the time to get the training I needed so I would not become another statistic. Let me say cave diving is considered by most cave divers to be THE most dangerous sport on our planet. Just like the mountain Mt. Everest stands as a monumental achievement for mountain climbers because of it's sheer size and the dangers involved, so do we, as cave divers consider Eagle's Nest to be of the same calibre and we train as such. To not get the training and experience necessary to accomplish the climbing done on Mt. Everest by those wishing to do so is not only foolhardy but extremely dangerous.
I need to ask you, since you would like to see Eagle's Nest closed to all diving or at the least become more regulated, what steps have you taken to understand what is involved in becoming cave diving certified? If and when Darrin explained to you what he was doing with your grandson, did you take what he was telling you at face-value, or did you do the foot work to find out just what was involved in becoming cave diving certified? Did you call any local dive shops specializing in cave diving training to get a feel for what was involved with getting the training needed to cave dive?
I know this hurts and let me say, for that, I am truly sorry to hurt you is not my intent, but, sometimes the truth hurts and it's a hard pill to swallow no matter what the circumstances. What Darrin did was foolhardy and dangerous and in the process he involved an innocent by-stander who probably looked up to him for guidance and reassurance.
To want to close a dive site that is as safe as any other dive site around, provided you know and follow the rules for that dive site, is irresponsible and without merit.