The Great 02 Cleaning Debate

[rddvet]

It may not be legally necessary but its important. The year after a hydro I've had so much flash rust in steel tanks I would be afraid to use them. Yes flash rust is deemed fairly safe and not a huge deal, but the first time I saw a ton of it in one of my tanks I said I'm vipping every year no matter what. What if I had just let it go until the next hydro. How nasty would the inside of the tank be?

[kwinter]

Exactly. For two days now when someone asked why talk off the bands I've been thinking in my head, "What the hell am I missing. How would you get the valves off otherwise?"

You can loosen the bands enough to slide them to a point where you can spread the tanks and get the crossover bar out. Then the valves come out. Technically you didn't remove the bands.

And BTW, there are still guys diving banded doubles with a cheater (suicide) bar yoke connector. Those are easy to get the valves out without touching the bands.

Please pardon any typos. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Line Squirrel]

It doesn't matter, just in my opinion, a VIP is pretty much nonsense, not actually required by anything, except of course a shop may not fill your tanks without one, your not in violation of any law without a VIP, but you are if a Hydro is overdue.
Just my opinion

Very true, however, it is an "industry standard" and if something were to happen, don't think for a minute a lawyer would not argue that point.

Another point, the VIP tells me that the tank passed inspection AT THAT POINT IN TIME. If someone does something stupid with the cylinder after the VIP then what is the liability of the inspector? I have no control over what happens to the cylinder after it leaves my shop.

[jj1987]

FWIW I had an AL14 tank neck split (luckily did not explode) while being filled. While I understand not wanting to pay $15/year for a VIP, you need to at least open the tank up and take a peek in there.

[a64pilot]

JJ, do you think a VIP would have found it? Do people do dye pen checks or ultrasound on a VIP? What kind of NDI is done?

On Edit, to be completely open I am level 2 aviation NDI trained, and while I am not knocking the cave diving shops as they are way more experienced than average, but the average shop and therefore I am sure the average VIP is pretty much worthless as the person performing the inspection couldn't find their Butt with both hands, it's just another revenue generating "service". Case in point, the idiots that VIP'd my new never been placed into service cylinders bought from DGE, and yes they had a VIP sticker on them.

[jj1987]

JJ, do you think a VIP would have found it? Do people do dye pen checks or ultrasound on a VIP? What kind of NDI is done?

On Edit, to be completely open I am level 2 aviation NDI trained, and while I am not knocking the cave diving shops as they are way more experienced than average, but the average shop and therefore I am sure the average VIP is pretty much worthless as the person performing the inspection couldn't find their Butt with both hands, it's just another revenue generating "service". Case in point, the idiots that VIP'd my new never been placed into service cylinders bought from DGE, and yes they had a VIP sticker on them.

I don't know that a vip would have found it. I know that a VIP increases the odds of it being found, however.

Personally I don't buy into the argument that VIP's are completely worthless. Oil, rust, cracks/pitting, moisture, etc all can be found during a yearly VIP assuming the shop pays attention. Since there are so few tools required and so little cost, I have the opinion that there's no good reason not to inspect your own tanks, even if you do or don't pay a shop to VIP them as well. Most shops who actually do the VIP as promised will let you look in the tank with them if you ask nicely. Fill Express in South Florida showed my new-to-diving fiancee the inside of the tank we brought to vip and since nothing was found they were also nice enough to show her a failed tank so that she had at least an example of one thing they were looking for.

[skip]

I condemned one of my own deco tanks. The shop owner thought it would be ok, but there was bit of a pit inside that could be seen clearly only with the magnifier. It was right at the turn point inside below the last thread just a bit. It looked like rotten aluminum (if aluminum could rot) and I swear I thought I saw bits of metal flake off from inside of the pit like a worm was up in there digging deeper. I probably would not have condemned it if it belonged to someone else, but I just knew I'd worry about it in the house, in the truck, before the dive, during the dive…. the emotional relief alone was worth the $200 for a new tank, viz, fill.

skip

[Jax]

A VIP showed me a bit of water had been splashed inside my tank at some fill, and now it has itty-bitty rust spots. I wouldn't have known that, and by the time they went for hydro, I might have pits.

[rddvet]

You can loosen the bands enough to slide them to a point where you can spread the tanks and get the crossover bar out. Then the valves come out. Technically you didn't remove the bands.

And BTW, there are still guys diving banded doubles with a cheater (suicide) bar yoke connector. Those are easy to get the valves out without touching the bands.

Please pardon any typos. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I guess that's my inexperience. I think I'd be so cautious about not bending or screwing up the crossover that it would take me longer to do it that way than to just slip off the bands.

Is this one more pro for the sidemount column?

[ktomlinson]

FWIW I had an AL14 tank neck split (luckily did not explode) while being filled. While I understand not wanting to pay $15/year for a VIP, you need to at least open the tank up and take a peek in there.

Had that tank been eddy current tested lately? Did you notify the manufacturer or any authorities so that they could track it? Glad that no one was injured!