Don't apologize. Just go to another forum section and start your own thread.
This is not the place for it.
It is quite simply ridiculous that a diver has to fear humiliation by the simple act of trying to retrieve an item they lost from a person attempting to return it.
Thanks in advance.
"omg take that out of your signature." ~ pink arrows
Wow... I feel the love now, thanks.
Not that I want to give you the satisfaction skip... But Actually I had a total of 5 lights on me. yes two of witch where in the same pocket.
One has no way of being clipped and the other after testing (in ow) must not have been clipped off correctly (inside the pocket) or maybe the clip broke after 200 + cave dives on it. ( I will find out if and when I get it back)
Question #2.
And Yes I did turn the dive after noticing they where gone even know I still had 3 lights and
Even though between us we had probely 15 lights.
Last edited by plapin; 08-13-2013 at 12:18 AM.
I'm open to suggestions from anybody that has over 500 cave dives, if I want to carry a 4th or 5th dive light ? Do I need another pocket installed on my suit? Is there something in the standards about throwing an extra light in a pocket over and beyond the original 3? If there is valued information to be learned for me or my fellow divers from this please pm me and I will post a new thread.
Guys Thank you for finding my lights and taking your time to post.
Please close this thread
The major agency standards say 2 backups + a primary. 5 lights is not in any standard.Originally Posted by plapin
Ya know, not for nothing, but there really wasn't anything wrong with the content of Skip's questions. I agree that they could have been a little "softer" but in the end, the questions weren't unreasonable. We can NOT be afraid to peer-support to protect our fellow cave divers rather than allow them to die because someone's feelings might get hurt. We have a very recent, unfortunate example...
Agreed that it should be in a different thread so if the mods feel it appropriate to split this off, then they will.
I do care about helping cave divers do the right thing and was faced with some decisions recently about sharing my thoughts with someone about some bad decision-making. I decided to share. This diver may not have liked it but it would be irresponsible to ignore. It is not the first time and won't be the last.
The only reasons I would not be open to suggestions or offended by them is if I was being irresponsible/careless, didn't know the standards, or my ego was too big to get some recommendations. Put it in check and accept the help from the community, no matter what form it comes. It could save your life one day.
----
Cave Mann
Skip had a very good, valid point, just didn't come off very nice. I thought the same as he did, because they were called back up lights. I usually dive with five lights as well as I have two on my helmet. Two back ups isn't enough. awhile ago I tested my back-ups and they were fine, but for some reason an hour or so into the dive I pulled one out and turned it on, it would only work for a short time. Pretty sure the batteries were close to being dead and while they were warm they would work fine, but chill them down and then they wouldn't. They were alkaline which means they should have a ridiculous shelf life. Now I stagger battery replacement in my back ups.
Anybody have a better idea? Ideally load testing I guess is the answer, but who's going to do that?
Oh, and threads go off topic all the time, I for one think a very good job is done on splitting out a thread.
I don't have over 500 cave dives, is there relevance in that? When does complacency kick in for the average cave diver?
Peter,
We met Sunday at Ginnie. I was the guy talking to you about the diver from Tampa you photographed and about your pockets. We got along well, so I hope I don't sully our future interactions or seem to be piling on you. That's not my intention.
I agree Skip could have been more tactful and this probably should be in a different thread. I just wanted to point out that during our conversation you said you had a small rip in your pocket that must have gotten bigger on the dive. At the time I thought nothing of it. On the ride home my girlfriend and I were talking about the day's dive and both looked at each other and said, "wtf was that guy that lost his lights doing shoving his backups in a ripped pocket." At the time I guess we both assumed you had more than two backup lights, didn't really think much of the rip, and likely has way more experience than we do so why would we say anything. In retrospect, that assumption of silence is probably what leads to future accidents by not bringing to the surface how one tiny oversight can lead to a series of bad coincidences.
Again, I don't mean to jump on the bandwagon or say you did anything wrong. I only bring it up so that someone who reads this thread thinks hey you know what my pocket looks tattered, maybe I'll choose the other one, and doesn't have the same thing happen with a poor outcome. In light of recent other tragedies at Ginnie, spotlighting the little areas that we all can quickly become complacent on because they seem so minute may help someone think twice in the future.
It was nice meeting you, and hope you realize I only bring this up as a thought provoker.
-Richard
It's an amazing paradox.
A thread is started where one diver is going out of his way to try and return a piece of lost gear to a diver he's likely never met.
Then a person steps in and starts making speculatory assumptions and questioning everthing including who the guys the instructor was.
It reminds me of everything I love and hate about the cave diving community.
And what if Skip was right about everything? Do you think Plapin would respect him and eagerly answer all of his questions in hopes of learning the err of his ways?
Get real.
"omg take that out of your signature." ~ pink arrows
a64pilot..
its funny you say that about load testing.
I just so happen to load test my lights every 10-20 dives or roughly 4 times per year.
because I have been know to do some extremely long dives and I don't believe the battery life that is listed on the light.
I bet only 4-5 cave divers own such a device.. but its worth it to me to know that I can still get 4hrs (weather its one 4hr dive or 2x 2hr dives in a day) out of a 3-4 year old light for less then $100
.
I will clarify so I don't get jumped once again.. this was a one hour planed dive they fell out on.
I suppose it was a bit harsh. Good to know they were "extras." But is five lights really necessary? I'll leave that for another thread! Glad you got your lights back, and sorry for my rant.
sklp
"Learning the techniques of others does not interfere with the discovery of techniques of one's own." B.F. Skinner, 1970.
these where never part of the "3 light, pri, and 2x sec set in my cave diving set.
It was part of the photos I was taking, so yes... I needed 5 lights for this dive, not particulatery for the dive its self but for the photos I was taking in the cave during the dive.
I don't want to use my backups for photos and then find out later during an emergency that i had used up half the life of the batteries over the year before i do my yearly replacement.
I was tough very stringently that you use your backup lights for NOTHING, except emergence only, and to test them in the water prior to starting every dive.
not for camping or letting the kids run around the house with when the power goes out or working on your car.
Last edited by plapin; 08-13-2013 at 09:33 AM.
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