Here ya go:Originally Posted by gianaameri
Welcome to the Cave Diver's Forum.
Here ya go:
www.rebreathermallorca.com - Just as equipment is not an acceptable substitute for the appropriate skill and experience, skill and experience are not an acceptable substitute for appropriate equipment. Plan all diving so that it can be completed safely without the action or inaction of a fellow diver.
Ducttape and a wide tip marker works for me. I do too many different styles of diving to permanently mark a tank with MOD.
My tanks are all permanently marked with my name and my own tank numbers (inventory control), but my MOD may change depending on the dive I do.
I analyze and mark all content on my tanks before leaving the dive shop as well. This way they have a chance to fix it before I leave if something is not right.
I think you're on to something here, particularly for traveling divers, but would suggest larger numbers and placement so that your buddy can easily see them at gas switches.
I used to have large number DIR style stickers on the side of the tank (still got a box of them). Eventually, they get destroyed in a cave environment, so I stopped putting them back on.
If people feel like they need a buddy to confirm their gas, I guess they can paint bigger numbers with the permanent marker wherever they want.
Still, stickers or big numbers on the side of the tank in a cave will need refreshing.
This was my bail-out tank on an early wreck expedition (72 is in meters):
www.rebreathermallorca.com - Just as equipment is not an acceptable substitute for the appropriate skill and experience, skill and experience are not an acceptable substitute for appropriate equipment. Plan all diving so that it can be completed safely without the action or inaction of a fellow diver.
A fellow diver in a separate post asked for "proof" that Duct Tape falls off tanks. Not sure if he was making a joke or was serious, but all who cave dive know that Duct Tape is not a permanent marking and it comes off and it can and does fall off in a cave environment - be that during transport or during the dive. The only exception is if you wrap it tight and on itself all around the tank (but what is the point of writing on Duct Tape when one can write directly on the tank with a black permanent marker???)
As "proof" (in case he was serious) I put forward the permanent markings made from cave diving on my O2 rebreather tanks and side-mount tanks. The cave has taken the paint off (you can imagine what happens to a silly piece of Duct Tape after carrying tanks up and down the dry-section of a real cave - not a tourist one - and actually using it cave diving... real cave have restrictions too!).
Other divers raised the issue about tanks being stolen at Ginnie by drunk divers. I had my tank stolen once, and since then I permanently mark the bottom with whatever spare can of spray paint I can get my hands on when a bit of re-painting is due (the color from the last can is so ugly I really do not think anybody will want to steal my tanks... rebreather tanks and rebreather cannister bottom section also regularly anti-theft spray marked/painted).
www.rebreathermallorca.com - Just as equipment is not an acceptable substitute for the appropriate skill and experience, skill and experience are not an acceptable substitute for appropriate equipment. Plan all diving so that it can be completed safely without the action or inaction of a fellow diver.
Your whole anti-duct tape theme is killing me. Yes, duct tape comes off. That is the point for me, and pretty much everyone I dive with. It does not simply fall off in the course of our dive. It is removed after EVERY dive. We place it on the neck of our tanks and write the mix as analyzed, the date, and our initials. We do this at the fill station. When we get to the dive site we verify the markings again to make sure that we grab the correct tank that we just analyzed. If need be, we re-analyze the tank and place a new piece of tape on the tank. It is not meant to be permanent. That is what the big ass MOD sticker on the side of our DEDICATED tanks is for!
I am not saying your way is wrong, or going to get you killed. However, you seem to have an over zealous zeal and hard on for assuming what we are doing is wrong. Yet, you can point out no truly logical flaw in our method. Well except for saying someone died doing it. Well that someone failed to follow those rules. The rules were not broken, they were simply not followed.
It's not the years in your life that matter, but the life in your years.
I still use the large DIR type sticky back labels, 70 ft, 100 ft, etc. I then also use painters tape (comes off easily with no residue) to mark psi and mix %'s. The psi and mix%'s are for me, the large permanent markings are for my buddy to verify. I also have the DIR labels at the top of the tank around the neck where I can look down and see the MOD. I follow the hose from second stage (with my hand) to the tank and my hand ends up right at the MOD markings. But I also have dedicated stage and deep deco tanks and do not ever put gas in them that would violate the MOD. I may have different mixes, but none that violate the MOD (the 70 ft tank may be EAN50, or it may be 50/25, or 25/25, for example). The painters tape tells me the mix and is put on at the fill station, where I analyze the gas. The tanks are then analyzed again pre-dive on site to verify the marking or to replace the tape if it came off in transport. At that time I write it in my wet notes with the dive plan (and contingencies) and program the percentages into my computers.
If the tape comes off during the dive, who cares? I usually remove it before the dive anyway. At this point the exact %;s are in my computers, and on my wet notes, and the MOD is there for me and buddy to see and verify during the dive.
I could write the percentages on the tank with a sharpie, and have when no tape available. It is easily "erased" by scribbling fresh sharpie ink all over it and rubbing with paper towel (or a thumb). It says it's permanent and it is until you scribble fresh sharpie ink over it and rub it off before the ink dries. Personally, I prefer the DIR MOD labels on the neck because it is so much easier to read (black numerals on white background that shines when a light is put on it), especially when it's dark silty water.
skip
"Learning the techniques of others does not interfere with the discovery of techniques of one's own." B.F. Skinner, 1970.
Carl Spencer died in the Fatal Brittanic expeditions following the rules you set out.
A "Team" dive to that level of expertise and professionalism allowed for a mismarked tank to actually make it into the water and kill a Team member.
The system you describe in your post is weak because a single diver error creates a failure point for the whole Team.
You end up with a dead body to recover (the diver who breathed the mismarked tank). Dead body recovery (or near dead recovery) is fraught with risk, not to mention in a cave environment that the dead body can be the cork in the bottle which blocks your only exit).
A system which uses only permanent tank markings is more solid than a system which uses temporary markings (in part or in whole).
www.rebreathermallorca.com - Just as equipment is not an acceptable substitute for the appropriate skill and experience, skill and experience are not an acceptable substitute for appropriate equipment. Plan all diving so that it can be completed safely without the action or inaction of a fellow diver.
I use painters tape to mark the analyzed mix. They have lasted several "rough" dives with no problem. It's all about placement (around the neck). They come off easy when I desire them to change, so I use them all the time.
Works for me, maybe not for you. So long as the tank is properly marked, who cares how it's done?
Joe
OMFG! Do you read and comprehend what everyone, including yourself is saying? How are my tanks NOT permanently marked? It ALWAYS has the MOD in BIG ASS numbers on the side of the tank. The tank NEVER gets filled with anything that violates that MOD. In fact, I would state that your permanent marker way, is by your own admission, a temporary way of marking a tank. You yourself state that if you want to put a different gas in the tank, you simply erase the markings and change them. I never change my MOD stickers because I don't put a different gas in them. You can not seem to get that through your head.
I understand what you are saying about a mistake by me, well multiple mistakes by me, could jeopardize the team. However, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the marking of the tanks. That has to do with the the failure to properly follow established rules. So, if group analysis is the answer, then marking the tanks your way or mine, will not make one juicy tasty little morsel of a difference in the outcome.
It's not the years in your life that matter, but the life in your years.
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