Did Rob Neto Block my IP?

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I'm not understanding. What's so wrong with scooters in Twin? Some say it's small/fragile/short, but other's say it's not that small/fragile and short? well, that's all in what you think scooters are for (short fun rides or restricted to getting further back before swimming). There are no rules against scootering in Twin and we have plenty of other locations that prohibit scooters. I'm also thinking that a scooter class might have a "final exam" in which Twin might be considered an ideal location.... A lesson in conservation as well as a test of control, decision-making, scooter management.

So one guy (mdax) has the opinion that scootering in Twin is not a good thing to do, and suddenly RN is a bad guy? Then RN gets accused of doing something he does not have the capability of doing (prohibiting access from IP address).

I must be missing something. Is there some history between RN and Mdax that predates the current beef? And why has no administrator come forward to explain the banned IP, if indeed it was banned by Administrator. I don't know much about IP addresses, but I've been told by those who are supposed to know that IP addresses are not necessarily static, that the same computer, same location, can have a different IP address from time to time. One IT guy at work showed me how to change my IP address. I don't remember now, but it seemed pretty simple.

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[mdax]

There is no history between me and RN. I read HIS POST on this forum defending taking a scooter class in twin and thought he made poor decisions. I believe someone else posted other accusations regarding his behavior, but I believe that thread was deleted, maybe FW can confirm why.
When I saw he was the new training director I was surprised that someone who made this type of decision would be put into that position...Well I wasn't actually all that surprised, in my opinion no one cares about quality of instruction other than grand standing at seminars talking about how it needs to improve. The hard decisions of sanctioning or holding them accountable just don't seem to happen unless they commit felonies.
I understand that differing opinions are not welcome regarding the quality of instructors, they are the untouchable class in cave diving and we all turn our heads and ignore bad behavior.

I never said RN "was a bad guy". I think he did something stupid, possibly multiple stupid things, but good people can make mistakes. Categorization as a bad guy generally requires a long term pattern of douchiness in my opinion.

There are two ways to tell someone to move along, ban them or go into vbulliten and enter their IP address, which is typically done for spammers from certain ranges.

You are correct sludge, they aren't going to the vegetable isle...in the store or in my analogy.
libel? Let me guess, you aren't a lawyer, don't have a shred of legal training, but stayed in a holiday inn last night?

I posted my ip and asked admins to check if he added me to the list of blocked ip addresses.

[Spectre]

My feelings on scootering twin are covered in most of the other posts; Most of my last dives in twin were scootering on a stage down the subway; been there, done that, don't need to swim it anymore. I'm not sure I understand the issue being posed.

I posted my ip and asked admins to check if he added me to the list of blocked ip addresses.

This is the next thing I don't get. It's possible it's a residual ban; but I would have expected someone to check into it by now and resolve if the address is banned, and when it was banned. Seems simple enough request, even if mdax went about asking about it in a less than optimal way.

[skip]

Thanks for the clarification. Scooter class in Twin is a debatable subject and may appear to be poor decision-making by some and not by others. That's all a matter of opinion, that could someday become a matter of policy. I can see both sides of that - or neither side really since I don't scooter and have not been in Twin. I'll leave those debates to those with experience.

I merely interpreted your comments as "bad guy" and do agree that we all make poor decisions from time to time. But my understanding is that Rob thinks it's fine to scooter Twin with students, as do some others, and it was not a mistake, not a poor decision (at least in his mind) and obviously not something the NACD BoD sees as poor decision-making. A conversation about whether Twin is "scooter able" and whether or not it's a place for training use of scooters is something I hope is being considered by NSS/CDS as well as the NACD. I would also hope that it could be discussed here on the CDF - of course it would have to be accusation-free to avoid getting deleted.

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[JahJahwarrior]

I'm not sure there is much hope for the cave diving community when shenanigans like this go on.

It's absolutely silly to think that because someone trained someone in a cave you don't agree with but plenty of others have no problem with it, that they can't be a training director.

It's absolutely childish to fly off the handle and assume that someone did something and make threats against that person without any proof.

Take a chill pill or turn off your computer. Count to ten before you post. Try to always assume the best of other people. This thread is just silly and I can't believe you aren't mortified to have it up here now that everyone knows Rob can't have done what you accused him of.

Not to mention in almost every forum the first course of action is always a user ban. IP bans come into play when someone makes other accounts to get around a user ban.

[a64pilot]

I've scootered twin, having said that it's not approiate (sp?) for a class. Especially when JB is so close, not reason to train in twin. There are some places that aren't good training areas, but once trained are good dive spots, we all agree on that don't we?
Some will say there is no need to scooter twin, and they are correct, you don't need scooter to go everywhere in twin.
But somethings up with the banned IP thing or I would have expected an immediate denial and request for apology, followed of course by someone feeling like an ass?
I'll admit surprise that this thread wasn't immediately deleted, so rather than be concerned about the cave diving community, I feet rather the opposite, I. E. rather than sweep the trash under the rug it's being allowed to come to it's conclusion whatever that may be,
I say Bravo to whomever is in charge here and applaud them.

[skip]

Rob is not taking students into twin on scooters until after they pass the class and demonstrate ability to not damage the cave. The statements that the markings and damage are due to Rob taking students is unfounded and not true. The markings and damage are real enough, but it's not Rob's students, or Rob creating low-vis on purpose, that's doing it. These kind of accusations are unfounded speculations. Some one sees Rob with a scooter class in the cave, they see damage, ergo, it's Rob's fault. Bad Logic here. Let's not forget how many other instructors take students into twin (and they do, whether with scooters or not). Some are intro students too. Some are doing a sidemount speciality. Handprints, dangling gear, poor trim and buoyancy, are characteristics of these students, at least initially, and easily account for the damage in twin.

I don't use names, I've not been in Twin, but for goodness sake it's obvious that those instructors who dive JB also dive Twin and HitW. As I recall the rules say you must be taught in more than one cave. So you can't really teach by the rules if you use Only JB.

I don't know why I'm the one defending Rob, I don't intend to! I'm just saying that what's being said is speculation, hearsay, and unfair. I do know that Rob is one of the most conservation-minded cave divers I know. I was NACD science chair before Rob was a member, and argued for a separate conservation committee (science committee included conservation at that time). Rob was appointed chair of the conservation committee and has done tremendous work on behalf of cave conservation. To accuse him of purposefully damaging any cave for any reason is just plain nonsense. I don't really know Rob, I've met him once or twice and talked briefly. I'm a regional safety officer for the NACD and Rob is also (or was?) the chair of the safety committee. Just so you don't think we are personal friends and I'm covering for him - I know him just well enough to know that what's explicitly being stated and what's being implied are simply not in keeping with his character.

you may not know or remember, but there was a thread on here years ago about whether or not we should have "sacrificial" caves for training. The idea was that students will blunder, there might be a need for "real life" type conditions artificially created by instructors, etc., and that it would be best to identify some parts of some caves for this purpose. Rob was opposed. He believes that there is no excuse for any damage to any cave at any time for any reason. Just ask him.

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[Captain Bil]

I'm coming to the conclusion we should rename this forum the SDF (Sanctimonious Divers' Forum). Sure seems to be a lot of it about pretty much everything. It does make for entertaining reading though.

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