Training Time Expirations on certificates: Too restrictive or Just Right?

[Tracydr]

I would love if somebody or bodies would do some stickies on the various ways to become cave certified. Perhaps a chart would be good to compare the different certifications.
Since I will be researching this over the next year or two, while I convalesce,I'd like to make sure I go the best route for me. Not the easiest but the best.
I'm not sure where I'll live in the next year but I do know that I'll be undergoing some orthopedic surgeries on my knees and possibly ankles. It will be awhile before I can dive caves. In the meantime, I'll study, swim and do the best I can to get ready.
Hopefully, I'll return to dive my dream. I really want to dive cables, specifically Mexican caves. I've had the dream for awhile. Had a few detours along the way, my current detour will be my worst.

[Tegg]

There are not to many certifications that have any real meaning these days that do NOT expire.

Seriously. Think about it...

Most of my IT and other certifications that are worth a damn all expire without CE credits applied on an annual basis. Why? (Think about this one)

Would that same concept be worthwhile to apply to an activity where complacency and lack of proficient skills can harm or kill someone?

[allen]

Academic degrees do not expire. If I needed to, I could get a job on the strength of my 25 year old master's degree in chemistry. I have taken 2 additional courses since then, but neither was mandatory.

[aquadog196]

I have to agree with Allen...and with his earlier statement. I know divers that are perfectly happy doing Intro Level diving or Apprentice Level, etc. Why "force" them to move on by expiring their card? Maybe I'm missing a good reason for doing this.
And I think encourages some of these divers to take classes they would not or should not have taken.

[Seanmeboy]

Definitely agree with aquadog. Plenty of diving at CDS apprentice level to do. I was dismayed when told (before class) that it expires in one year. If my apprentice card expires and my basic card (restricted to 1/6 doubles expires in 18 months) is already expired the next card back in line says "intro restricted to single cylinder." (Told no card available for side mount class). Please, I know instructors will dive and re cert you for free. But it is a little insulting after attaining apprentice level (sidemount) to get busted back.

Question: After one year, under this scenario, without contacting an instructor, What kind of dive can I do (Penetration, depth, configuration) and to stay within my training.

[Greenwood_60]

Question: After one year, under this scenario, without contacting an instructor, What kind of dive can I do (Penetration, depth, configuration) and to stay within my training.

Do you mean training, or certification? Your training is not going to expire for any reason other than lack of use.

[Seanmeboy]

Right. certification.

[mag3]

Question: After one year, under this scenario, without contacting an instructor, What kind of dive can I do (Penetration, depth, configuration) and to stay within my training.

Right. certification.

You revert to the highest level for which you have permanent certification. For example (assuming the NACD/CDS training path), if you took "Cavern" diving and passed that, it will be "permanent." If you then took "Intro to Cave" with "Single Tank" only, that will also be permanent. If you're taking "Intro Doubles/Basic Cave," that will expire after 12/18 mos. respectively (or it used to). If you don't move on or don't renew it, you would revert to "cavern" or, you could arrange to get an "Intro - Single" cert, which is permanent. Or, you could get your Intro-Doubles/Basic renewed for another 12/18 mos. Or move on to "Apprentice."

If you don't renew the "apprentice" certification, you would revert back to the permanent certification you last had (either "cavern" or "Intro Single") and the limitations thereof. But if you are already at "apprentice," why not finish it and go to "full cave?" There isn't much left to do after apprentice (i.e. complex navigation - circuits/traverses, etc.)... At that level, it's more about "situational awareness."

[Jax]

There are not to many certifications that have any real meaning these days that do NOT expire.

Seriously. Think about it...

Most of my IT and other certifications that are worth a damn all expire without CE credits applied on an annual basis. Why? (Think about this one)

Would that same concept be worthwhile to apply to an activity where complacency and lack of proficient skills can harm or kill someone?

There is a difference here - IT changes so rapidly that your knowledge can be out of date within a year.

Just what cave knowledge expires?

[Jax]

Definitely agree with aquadog. Plenty of diving at CDS apprentice level to do. I was dismayed when told (before class) that it expires in one year. If my apprentice card expires and my basic card (restricted to 1/6 doubles expires in 18 months) is already expired the next card back in line says "intro restricted to single cylinder." (Told no card available for side mount class). Please, I know instructors will dive and re cert you for free. But it is a little insulting after attaining apprentice level (sidemount) to get busted back.

Question: After one year, under this scenario, without contacting an instructor, What kind of dive can I do (Penetration, depth, configuration) and to stay within my training.

This is interesting. So, your into / apprentice card expires, and you are busted back to single-cylinder cavern . . . . and that single cylinder is to make you safer? This really doesn't make sense.