Sidemount- Specialty or the new normal?

[MichaelAngelo]

Isn't that what the little xxx s are for on the system maps? I would think that the last thing we need is to add more man made stuff in the system in the name of cave policing.

[MORGAN]

Isn't that what the little xxx s are for on the system maps? I would think that the last thing we need is to add more man made stuff in the system in the name of cave policing.

+1!

[navycaver]

Isn't that what the little xxx s are for on the system maps? I would think that the last thing we need is to add more man made stuff in the system in the name of cave policing.

+2
Leave the caves as they are

[phillip1]

+3 if cave divers need to be baby sited to the point where passages are marked as difficulty levels then maybe those cave divers should not be diving caves in the first place, same opinion on gold lines, really a colour line actually will make any difference in your dive, well if so maybe you should not be diving in caves and get more training first then dive caves.

If you see a restriction and feel uncomfortable cause it looks too tight for you then stop and turn around, BM or SM.

SM is just a configuration, whether tight or big it just is way more comfortable, and I think it will and is becoming the mainstream configuration cause any way you look at it it is just way more comfortable, not to mention the flexibility and ability to dive where no BM could ever possibly go to.
But that is not the point of SM, as I said above you will eliminate back pain, knee pain (from lugging doubles) neck pain etc.. and feel free like a slender fish and not like a heavy turtle. SM is becoming the new normal for sure, in Mex you see more SM than BM these days and rising, Florida I imagine more or less the same too. As I have said I think BM will slowly but surely fade into obscurity and by the time your young kids grow up and start cave diving they will all laugh at pictures of old school BM divers for the two thousands, really people dove like that, wow?

[Kelly Jessop]

I said above you will eliminate back pain, knee pain (from lugging doubles) neck pain etc.. and feel free like a slender fish and not like a heavy turtle.

I remember when nitrox was a voodoo gas and DEMA wanted no mention of it at their shows. Then when it became marketable there were claims that nitrox would make you feel better etc,when in reality it hasn't done half the claims it would do. In reality you will trade one form of stress with going from backmount to sidemount. You will eliminate the weight on your back when walking to the water,which applys stress on joints in a longitudinal axis,but since we are in an anatomical position,we may actually balance the stresses well. With sidemounting I see people carry tanks and drop them into place,which puts them in a poor biomechincal postions,which in reality INCREASES stress to low back and knees. For example,yesterday I watched someone lower their tanks into the water,which was lower than their standing position,this resulted in extreme kyphosis,and a lot of back stresses.

SM is becoming the new normal for sure

Sidemount configuration is becoming the norm because it has strong market forces. Unfortunately in my opinion,sidemount configuration is a tool,and so is backmount,and a well rounded cave divers needs to know how to use both,and have access to both. There are caves that have a lot of fissure cracks,and these are best traversed in sidemount. For example,the first 500' of upstream Black Lagoon is narrow and tall,and back mount has always been recommended. Unfortunately the plethora of sidemount configuration divers have left their mark on the sidewalls. Conversely,back mounting has no business in small bedding planes,and best reserved for sidemount configuration. Hence,using both configurations makes a better and more conservation minded cave diver.

[argyris]

Sidemount configuration is becoming the norm because it has strong market forces. Unfortunately in my opinion,sidemount configuration is a tool,and so is backmount,and a well rounded cave divers needs to know how to use both,and have access to both. There are caves that have a lot of fissure cracks,and these are best traversed in sidemount. For example,the first 500' of upstream Black Lagoon is narrow and tall,and back mount has always been recommended. Unfortunately the plethora of sidemount configuration divers have left their mark on the sidewalls. Conversely,back mounting has no business in small bedding planes,and best reserved for sidemount configuration. Hence,using both configurations makes a better and more conservation minded cave diver.

+1 Well said.

[phillip1]

if you see a vertical fissure obviously take off a tank or two to adapt to the shape of the cave the marks you refer to is not a case of a wrong configuration but rather a case of poorly trained divers diving in SM. in all fairness the majority of damage to decorations in less than BM ideal caves is due to poorly trained BM divers not nesserely a wrong configuration/cave shape for BM, skill and control are the keys here not configuration.
Try matching the shape of a cave back mount if you get into a horizontal bedding plane and instanly discover that SM is much more than just a tool but the configuration of the future in cave diving, lol

I can name numerous insane caves that you just could not dive BM, I cannot name one that I could not dive SM, that alone is enough for me.
In fact the best explorations and cave systems I have ever had the privilege of diving were almost all SM only entrances, huge massive systems lurked behind SM or NM restictions that were divable in a submarine but had I been BM it would have been dubbed "does not go" or "maybe in SM"

I have had and ACL replacement and a meniscus repair and BM I don't think so, having two separate tanks is way easier on my knees and to carry than a set of doubles.

but to get back to the original subject of this thread, yes I think SM is becoming the new normal, and for good reason, has nothing to do with advertising at all but all to do with it is just more comfortable, felxible and more fun.
look at your local dive site I bet at least 50% if not more and rising of all divers are now SM if that is not becoming the new normal what is?

[Kelly Jessop]

There have been so many "new normals". To illustrate,when I started cave diving butting mounting the light canister,and putting the long hose was on a bungee on the side of the tank was common. Was this wrong? No,was used successfully for years without incidence. Hogarthian configuration came along,and during the same time period of the old Tech-list,if you were caught diving the old configuration vs Hogarthian then you would be the product of ridicule. Quite a few people converted out of peer pressure,not out of real need,because no one has really proven that not butt mounting the primary light or stuffing the long hose wouldn't work. Sidemount configuration has become the newest Hogarthian paradigm,where I have heard people at dive sites yell across the parking lot to an acquaintance,and ask them when they are going to get those tanks off their back in a joking manner. Sidemount configuration is becoming common place,and that doesn't offend or effect me,but people need to understand that in the zeal to do something new because of proclaimed benefits,that a devil's advocate position needs to me mentioned. #1 Sidemount configuration doesn't cure cancer or allow the blind to see (satire) #2 really does increase drag and this was verified by some engineers many years ago #3 really doesn't reduce stress on the body,just shifts it in different ways #4 truly is not appropriate for all cave passages,just like we would tell a back mounter to stay away from bedding planes. My main point is that a well rounded cave diver that has an arsenal full of tools to handle all situtations is one that can use all the tools available with a certain amount of expertise.-this includes SM,BM,and perhaps in extreme cases NM.

[phillip1]

There have been so many "new normals". To illustrate,when I started cave diving butting mounting the light canister,and putting the long hose was on a bungee on the side of the tank was common. Was this wrong? No,was used successfully for years without incidence. Hogarthian configuration came along,and during the same time period of the old Tech-list,if you were caught diving the old configuration vs Hogarthian then you would be the product of ridicule. Quite a few people converted out of peer pressure,not out of real need,because no one has really proven that not butt mounting the primary light or stuffing the long hose wouldn't work. Sidemount configuration has become the newest Hogarthian paradigm,where I have heard people at dive sites yell across the parking lot to an acquaintance,and ask them when they are going to get those tanks off their back in a joking manner. Sidemount configuration is becoming common place,and that doesn't offend or effect me,but people need to understand that in the zeal to do something new because of proclaimed benefits,that a devil's advocate position needs to me mentioned. #1 Sidemount configuration doesn't cure cancer or allow the blind to see (satire) #2 really does increase drag and this was verified by some engineers many years ago #3 really doesn't reduce stress on the body,just shifts it in different ways #4 truly is not appropriate for all cave passages,just like we would tell a back mounter to stay away from bedding planes. My main point is that a well rounded cave diver that has an arsenal full of tools to handle all situtations is one that can use all the tools available with a certain amount of expertise.-this includes SM,BM,and perhaps in extreme cases NM.

I respectfully disagree, in the past 6 years since i stopped BM I have not encounters one situation in all my explorations, not a single one were BM would have been a better or more appropriate choice, I have explored everything form gnarly NM caves to massive power caves and not once in all those dives would BM have been even slightly a better choice. I think the argument that SM is only a tool is bogus, it is a super flexible platform that is infinitely customizable to meet each diver's personal preference, it is not a tool but rather a Swiss Army knife multi tool so to speak.
The increased drag thing is also ridiculous I am pretty sure it would be the same or if there were any real difference it would be so minimal no one would notice, wether BM be more drag or SM.
Same stress on the body just in different places, I really don't think so, from my personal experience with all kinds of SM harnesses and form what I gather form every single person who has tried it SM is just way more comfortable.

One quick note except for the massive Ox Bel Ha passages the GUE guys are exploring almost 90% of all the new caves discovered in Mexico are being explored exclusively in SM these days, and you are talking about every single variety and kind of cave on the planet, yes even super high flow caves like in Florida too, however about 70% of those caves would be completey inaccessible in BM so I disagree when you talk about SM being a tool, it is by far the most flexible diving configuration available today and is like it or not becoming the norm.

100% of all DR caves are being explored in SM and not for lack of cave size, yes most could be Explored BM but many could not, BM is purely and simply a waste of time in cave exploration and IMO really has no place at all in my or my team's arsenal, in fact preety much all serious cave exploration in Mexico the DR and the Bahamas and i suspect much of the current Florida exploration too is done prety much exclusively in SM, (yes some still explore BM in Mexico but they are now the exception and are few and far between)I want to be able to dive any cave anywhere in safety and comfort and be able to have the flexibility to squeeze through anything, I don't want to waste my time or miss out on incredible caves simply because my configuration does not allow me to dive there, I consider BM a real waste of time.

Peer pressure I don't think so, if someone chooses SM over BM to me that is making an intelligent choice,hehehe not peer pressure, would it also be peer pressure if they chose to dive BM instead? people see BM and SM and then choose what they want to try but I think most people today are choosing SM and for good reason, so again yes SM is becoming the new normal

[jj1987]

I respectfully disagree, in the past 6 years since i stopped BM I have not encounters one situation in all my explorations, not a single one were BM would have been a better or more appropriate choice, I have explored everything form gnarly NM caves to massive power caves and not once in all those dives would BM have been even slightly a better choice. I think the argument that SM is only a tool is bogus, it is a super flexible platform that is infinitely customizable to meet each diver's personal preference, it is not a tool but rather a Swiss Army knife multi tool so to speak.
The increased drag thing is also ridiculous I am pretty sure it would be the same or if there were any real difference it would be so minimal no one would notice, wether BM be more drag or SM.
Same stress on the body just in different places, I really don't think so, from my personal experience with all kinds of SM harnesses and form what I gather form every single person who has tried it SM is just way more comfortable.

One quick note except for the massive Ox Bel Ha passages the GUE guys are exploring almost 90% of all the new caves discovered in Mexico are being explored exclusively in SM these days, and you are talking about every single variety and kind of cave on the planet, yes even super high flow caves like in Florida too, however about 70% of those caves would be completey inaccessible in BM so I disagree when you talk about SM being a tool, it is by far the most flexible diving configuration available today and is like it or not becoming the norm.

100% of all DR caves are being explored in SM and not for lack of cave size, yes most could be Explored BM but many could not, BM is purely and simply a waste of time in cave exploration and IMO really has no place at all in my or my team's arsenal, in fact preety much all serious cave exploration in Mexico the DR and the Bahamas and i suspect much of the current Florida exploration too is done prety much exclusively in SM, (yes some still explore BM in Mexico but they are now the exception and are few and far between)I want to be able to dive any cave anywhere in safety and comfort and be able to have the flexibility to squeeze through anything, I don't want to waste my time or miss out on incredible caves simply because my configuration does not allow me to dive there, I consider BM a real waste of time.

Peer pressure I don't think so, if someone chooses SM over BM to me that is making an intelligent choice,hehehe not peer pressure, would it also be peer pressure if they chose to dive BM instead? people see BM and SM and then choose what they want to try but I think most people today are choosing SM and for good reason, so again yes SM is becoming the new normal

Last time I was in MX (2 months ago) I had dinner with a few people exploring a system other than ox bel ha in RB80's. I'm going back in a couple of months to assist with some exploration and survey, to be done in back mount as well. I think we tend to surround ourselves with like minded individuals and lose perspective.

As for your Florida reference, to my knowledge the record for longest cave penetration as well as deepest cave penetration were done by two different groups each using a back mount configuration.